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Why Web3?

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Re: Why Web3?

#591

Post by dmitriid »

Kiro wrote: post #578
dmitriid wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay. "Blockchain and crypto aside", where are the fully decentralized Facebooks and Twitters without gatekeepers?

Why would I know? No-one has built it yet? It's not technically possible? There's no demand for it? You seem to be insinuating something so please elaborate.

> Why would I know?

You're the one proclaiming and wanting things.

> No-one has built it yet? It's not technically possible? There's no demand for it?

Yes, yes, and yes, to varying degrees? You're so close to getting it.

Re: Why Web3?

#592

Post by ramchip »

CryptoPunk wrote: post #582
arcticbull wrote: post #560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Largely agree with this. The big promise of defi was to “bank the unbanked” The un-banked aren't un-banked because there are no banks, or even because banks are inaccessible. They are un-banked because they do not have money. This is a social problem characterized by folks falling through the cracks. It's a lack of social safety net, a lack of unionization, a lack of inflation-adjusted minimum wage, a lack of healt…

>>It's a lack of social safety net, a lack of unionization, a lack of inflation-adjusted minimum wage, a lack of healthcare. Broadly, a lack of of social programs. Social spending has risen at unprecedented rates since the 1950s: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/social-spending-oecd-long... If the social democratic narrative were true, we would have seen the rate of wage growth rise. The opposite has happened. It t…

> Tokens on the blockchain on the other hand provide hundreds of thousands of people in the Philippines with a way to make a living, and literally saved many from death during the mass-unemployment created by the lockdown. See the rise of Axie Infinity.

It's clearly a Ponzi scheme, where new entrants pay a large entry fee ($1k+), which funds the returns of the existing players. Poor people borrowing money to fund other poor people, until the last to join are stuck with the bill (earnings are already crashing).

More details in:

- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29725845

- https://twitter.com/larsiusprime/status/1459191090100244483

- https://ambcrypto.com/axie-infinity-ronin-blockchain-see-dec...

- https://www.reddit.com/r/AxieInfinity/comments/odmdrk/how_do...

Re: Why Web3?

#593

Post by Kiro »

dmitriid wrote: post #591
Kiro wrote: post #578

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would I know? No-one has built it yet? It's not technically possible? There's no demand for it? You seem to be insinuating something so please elaborate.

> Why would I know? You're the one proclaiming and wanting things. > No-one has built it yet? It's not technically possible? There's no demand for it? Yes, yes, and yes, to varying degrees? You're so close to getting it.

Yes, and none of this changes the fact that I still want it. Now you hopefully get it as well.

Re: Why Web3?

#594

Post by CryptoPunk »

ramchip wrote: post #592
CryptoPunk wrote: post #582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>It's a lack of social safety net, a lack of unionization, a lack of inflation-adjusted minimum wage, a lack of healthcare. Broadly, a lack of of social programs. Social spending has risen at unprecedented rates since the 1950s: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/social-spending-oecd-long... If the social democratic narrative were true, we would have seen the rate of wage growth rise. The opposite has happened. It t…

> Tokens on the blockchain on the other hand provide hundreds of thousands of people in the Philippines with a way to make a living, and literally saved many from death during the mass-unemployment created by the lockdown. See the rise of Axie Infinity. It's clearly a Ponzi scheme, where new entrants pay a large entry fee ($1k+), which funds the returns of the existing players. Poor people borrowing money to fund oth…

It's not poor people funding Axie. It's whales, who pay poor people for the SLP tokens that their grinding earns them. It's the same economy that was once seen in World of Warcraft gold farming, but allowed to globalize and become streamlined, so that more gamer whales can connect to more people willing to work for them.

Beyond this enablement of more sophisticated coordination between those with capital and those with time, the emergence of digital collectibles might increase the aggregate amount of physical wealth, as the emergence of physical collectibles did some 30 some thousand years ago:

https://archive.fo/pvabs

Re: Why Web3?

#595

Post by Kiro »

dmitriid wrote: post #590
Kiro wrote: post #585

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure what your point is. You've been arguing with me against something I don't understand this whole thread so let me make this clear: I (me, personally) want to build apps on open and unrestricted APIs. I don't know how or if this will happen. I don't claim it will change the world and I definitely don't think it involves blockchain. Now, can you stop being obnoxious?

> Not sure what your point is. My point is: You keep saying things without offering anything concrete. When people ask you concrete questions you hide behind "I never said aything about implementation" > I (me, personally) want to I also want many things.

Why would I need to offer anything at all? People ask irrelevant questions thinking I'm advocating for a crypto future.

> I also want many things.

And how would you feel if people started arguing saying you don't actually want those things? That's what you are doing.

Re: Why Web3?

#596

Post by raesene9 »

kpommerenke wrote: post #291
raesene9 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In many cases you don't even need to modify it. Ownership of an NFT often does not provide copyright on the original image ( https://www.wipo.int/wipo_magazine/en/2021/04/article_0007.h... has some interesting details on what you do and don't get with an NFT). So if you made the original image, you can just mint a new NFT of that image and sell it. Heck you can mint as many NFTs as you like of any image you own the c…

Why do I need to own the copyright to mint an NFT of the image?

So, if you don't own the copyright and then mint an NFT, in theory the copyright holder could get the source image for your NFT taken down (depending on where it's hosted of course)

That hasn't stopped loads of NFTs of copyrighted images being minted ofc.

Re: Why Web3?

#597

Post by arcticbull »

CryptoPunk wrote: post #594
ramchip wrote: post #592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tokens on the blockchain on the other hand provide hundreds of thousands of people in the Philippines with a way to make a living, and literally saved many from death during the mass-unemployment created by the lockdown. See the rise of Axie Infinity. It's clearly a Ponzi scheme, where new entrants pay a large entry fee ($1k+), which funds the returns of the existing players. Poor people borrowing money to fund oth…

It's not poor people funding Axie. It's whales, who pay poor people for the SLP tokens that their grinding earns them. It's the same economy that was once seen in World of Warcraft gold farming, but allowed to globalize and become streamlined, so that more gamer whales can connect to more people willing to work for them. Beyond this enablement of more sophisticated coordination between those with capital and those wi…

> It's the same economy that was once seen in Warcraft gold farming, but allowed to globalize and become streamlined, so that more gamer whales can connect to more people willing to work for them.

You say that like its even close to a good thing. It's unproductive, a waste of time, resources, human capital. It's also a Ponzi scheme because all payouts are made from new investors minus operational costs. Gains are illusory in aggregate.

Re: Why Web3?

#598

Post by CryptoPunk »

arcticbull wrote: post #597
CryptoPunk wrote: post #594

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not poor people funding Axie. It's whales, who pay poor people for the SLP tokens that their grinding earns them. It's the same economy that was once seen in World of Warcraft gold farming, but allowed to globalize and become streamlined, so that more gamer whales can connect to more people willing to work for them. Beyond this enablement of more sophisticated coordination between those with capital and those wi…

> It's the same economy that was once seen in Warcraft gold farming, but allowed to globalize and become streamlined, so that more gamer whales can connect to more people willing to work for them. You say that like its even close to a good thing. It's unproductive, a waste of time, resources, human capital. It's also a Ponzi scheme because all payouts are made from new investors minus operational costs. Gains are ill…

It's a transfer of wealth from those with surplus capital, who are looking to expend that capital on entertainment, to those on the brink of starvation, so yes it's a good thing. And no, if the transfer is done for entertainment purposes, as many game asset purchases are, it's not a "ponzi" scheme.

>>Gains are illusory in aggregate.

Gains might not be illusionary, given they are giving rise to new stores of wealth which can have economic utility. See the essay on the rise of physical collectibles 30 some thousand years ago.

Re: Why Web3?

#599

Post by hestefisk »

CryptoPunk wrote: post #518
hestefisk wrote: post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Largely agree with this. The big promise of defi was to “bank the unbanked”, but Eth is - slow (15 txn/sec, 22-23 with the move to proof of stake) - expensive (I read somewhere that globally Eth users spend more on 30M USD in fees per day!) - too volatile to be reliable for everyday banking use cases - bad for the environment Blockchain technology is interesting and very powerful, but VCs and founders have all too of…

>>- slow (15 txn/sec, 22-23 with the move to proof of stake) - expensive (I read somewhere that globally Eth users spend more on 30M USD in fees per day!) - This is no longer the case with L2 solutions, like zk-Rollups. See what StarkEx, which is one particular Validium/zk-Rollup L2 solution, is doing: https://twitter.com/EliBenSasson/status/1475206185762578437?... >>Past week, @ethereum ~ 9M txs. StarkEx ~ 6.25M TWO…

L2 solutions: yes they do indeed scale them, but it appears to be a centralised solution to a decentralised problem. In other words, putting lipstick on a pig.

Stablecoins aren’t volatile, correct, but that’s because they are pegged to an offchain fiat currency or other form of “real” collateral. Even DAI, which is the most “truly” decentralised stablecoins of them all, is pegged against fiat.

POS is good yes, but the Eth community have been saying this for a long time now. “Show me the money” ;)

Re: Why Web3?

#600

Post by say_it_as_it_is »

darawk wrote: post #83
jasonzemos wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One company controls the specification and reference implementation. These gimmicks tend to be "open" so contributions can flow in from anywhere, but the company has full priority and benefits by controlling the pace and final result. Outsider contributions are submitted publicly, while features developed by the company start in secret and can remain secret as long as possible. The company's contributions are rammed…

Except all these things can be trivially forked. If you don't like how the VC one is doing things, just fork it. There are a billion forks of everything in the crypto space, for exactly this reason.

There are a "billion" forks in the crypto space, but have any surpassed the original project in quality or adoption?
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