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Why Web3?

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581–590 of 706 posts

Re: Why Web3?

#581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because nfts are not tied to the real world. You own nothing but the digital signature. The digital signature is thing that people want to own in the real world!

And yet all the talk is not about the signature, but the thing it refers to. Why is that distinction constantly elided? Is it because the digital signature has no value on its own?

It's because there is no other meaningful way to "own" the thing the signature refers to, if you apply a concept of ownership as you would to a physical piece of art.

Being in physical possession of the bytes to a JPEG is not what gives people the sense that they own this piece of art in the way they might own a painting, because the bytes are so cheaply copied.

Owning the intellectual property behind a JPEG is an entirely different kind of ownership; the value is in the commercial exploitation of those rights, and the buyer is now taking over from the creator in being responsible for said exploitation to get their money's worth. This is not what artists or art collectors want.

The whole point is to artificially recreate the traditional experience of ownership, but for immaterial/digital goods. People talk about owning the work (or an edition of it), not the signature, because that is the whole point of the exercise.

Immaterial artworks such as video art, performances etc. are already being sold in the art market; what you get is a piece of paper stating that you own the work. It's exactly the same as an NFT.

It may seem utterly useless for people who don't care about owning editions of immaterial works of art, but there is nothing scammy about it. It is done entirely in earnest.

Re: Why Web3?

#582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Largely agree with this. The big promise of defi was to “bank the unbanked”, but Eth is - slow (15 txn/sec, 22-23 with the move to proof of stake) - expensive (I read somewhere that globally Eth users spend more on 30M USD in fees per day!) - too volatile to be reliable for everyday banking use cases - bad for the environment Blockchain technology is interesting and very powerful, but VCs and founders have all too of…

> Largely agree with this. The big promise of defi was to “bank the unbanked” The un-banked aren't un-banked because there are no banks, or even because banks are inaccessible. They are un-banked because they do not have money. This is a social problem characterized by folks falling through the cracks. It's a lack of social safety net, a lack of unionization, a lack of inflation-adjusted minimum wage, a lack of healt…

>>It's a lack of social safety net, a lack of unionization, a lack of inflation-adjusted minimum wage, a lack of healthcare. Broadly, a lack of of social programs.

Social spending has risen at unprecedented rates since the 1950s:

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/social-spending-oecd-long...

If the social democratic narrative were true, we would have seen the rate of wage growth rise. The opposite has happened.

It turns out social democracy benefits only the public sector unions.

A couple anecdotes illuminates the kind of power these unions wield:

New York has nearly 300,000 unionized public sector employees receiving over $100,000 a year:

https://archive.md/JnJQY

In California, emergency workers can retire at 55 with 90% of their pension, that averages $108,000 per year.

California now has $1 trillion in pension obligations for its unionized public sector workers. That is where all the social welfare spending is going.

>>Not to mention for the poor, a massively volatile speculative asset with astronomical fees is literally the worst thing they could put all their money into.

No, the worst thing is lottery tickets:

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/03/amazing...

Tokens on the blockchain on the other hand provide hundreds of thousands of people in the Philippines with a way to make a living, and literally saved many from death during the mass-unemployment created by the lockdown. See the rise of Axie Infinity.

And there are plenty of crypto platforms that offer zero/near-zero fees, like Axie's Ronin, which is a near-zero-fee Ethereum sidechain.

>>outside people on the OFAC list, which, I would argue, is a good thing.

What about innocent people from countries on the OFAC list. Do you think that is a good thing? Acceptable collateral damage? What about WikiLeaks, which was blockaded by the credit card companies, under pressure from US government agencies, after it revealed war crimes? Good thing too?

You speak from a position of privilege, to reinforce centralized structures of control that perpetuate that privilege.

Re: Why Web3?

#583

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But because anybody else can sell anybody else very similar NFTs it looks like the supply is infinite. People only want to pay for the NFT, because it is supposed to represent a desirable piece of art. The only person who has the moral authority to sell it is the artist. Anyone can create an NFT that "links" to some piece of art they found online, but if I am not the artist, why would anyone pay me for it? Addition…

I can see a way it could make sense. The NFT contains text that declares what the buyer of it gets. For instance they get the right to use the digital art on their website. And maybe a right to sell that right to someone else if they stop using it on their website. If I tried to create such an NFT from someone else's art that would be fraud if I don't own the copyright to that art. Is that how it works in practice? D…

> Do NFTs (typically) include immutable text which clearly spells out what rights are transferred to the buyer of the NFT?

This can be included immutably on-chain. Mostly it is done off-chain, which is ok, because enforcement of any such license would happen off-chain and in courts anyway. Frequently, no license details are given at all, which may also be ok, because people who collect fine art aren't doing it for the use value ("I need a stock photo for my landing page"), they are doing it because they feel good about being an art collector. In that sense, very limited use-rights are actually required.

Re: Why Web3?

#584

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The private key identifies the artist, so that is not a solution.

No, the private key does not identify the artist. Instead, what identifies the artist, is the artist saying "hey, this thing over here is the real one!". None of which involves a Blockchain.

Not sure if you understand how public key cryptography works?

The artists says "this is my key" to their public key. Then they can use their key to sign things, and people can verify the signature because they can check that it belongs to the public key, which the artist has publicly announced.

Re: Why Web3?

#585
post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does what improve? I haven't said anything about implementation.

All theories are good until they come into contact with reality. "Everything will be magically good and people will live in love in peace once there's a decentralized open database with bo gatekeepers" is just as valid a statement if you "don't say anything about implementation".

Not sure what your point is. You've been arguing with me against something I don't understand this whole thread so let me make this clear: I (me, personally) want to build apps on open and unrestricted APIs. I don't know how or if this will happen. I don't claim it will change the world and I definitely don't think it involves blockchain.

Now, can you stop being obnoxious?

Re: Why Web3?

#586
post #526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> None of this is about giving power back to individuals Artificial scarcity is the aspect of web3 that bothers me most. The web is all about abundance; reducing the marginal cost of software and information to zero so as many people as possible can have access. It seems like web3 advocates seek to do the opposite and lock software and information inside the digital equivalent of diamond mines.

I've asked for this many times (though not here) and still haven't received a satisfactory answer, so I'm curious: who said any of this? Is there a single influential architect of the net or the web who believed this or is this something that was and is a politically aspirational goal by special interest groups like the GNU folks?

One reference is “Free” by Chris Anderson, https://www.amazon.com/Free-Future-Radical-Chris-Anderson/dp...

DHH has written about abundance as part of his approach to Rails, https://world.hey.com/dhh/i-won-t-let-you-pay-me-for-my-open...

The “Post-scarcity economy” article on Wikipedia lists a number of references, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-scarcity_economy

Generally, computing trends toward abundance. Computers are priced about the same, but do more each generation.

Re: Why Web3?

#587

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fair, but that seems like more of a feature than a bug. Why have a system we can't control if there's already one we can use for our interests?

the UN != NATO

Sure, but we != the UN. Why spend energy building something so Iran (your example) can benefit?

Re: Why Web3?

#588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the only reason I can imagine someone wanting a open database without gate keepers is for something the society I've aligned with has decided is illegal. At the end of the day, I guess I trust the goverment I vote for and the banks I decide on more than a distributed group of strangers. Do you have an example of a DB that was unfairly limited by a gate keeper?

> At the end of the day, I guess I trust the goverment I vote for and the banks I decide on more than a distributed group of strangers. This is a pretty ignorant take on how blockchains work. Feel free to have your opinions, but if you really think that billions of dollars is secured in Bitcoin simply because "a distributed group of strangers" are trustworthy, you've missed the entire point and you don't actually und…

Come on, I read the original bitcoin paper upon its release xD I shortened my original post, but had explained that in the UK the Land-registry has started using a blockchain for record keeping. It worked well and is a good solution, but only whilst they stay as the sole writer. A distributed registry of home-ownership would have many risks, the largest being a sybil attack. Which Bitcoin is also liable to, where your coins are essentially protected in the trust of strangers all acting in their own interest. I can't really respect "trustless" given its an oxymoron really meaning "trust a mass of unknown people to act in their own interest".

Putting that aside, let's deal with the original quoted issue. I am privileged enough to be in a place where I trust my government, and by extension agree with their rules. The "trustless" setup of Bitcoin has meant that CP can be hosted comfortably within it (https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-47130268). A system with a liable entity would be able to solve this, Bitcoin cannot. I don't feel ignorant to think this is an issue?

Re: Why Web3?

#589

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the private key does not identify the artist. Instead, what identifies the artist, is the artist saying "hey, this thing over here is the real one!". None of which involves a Blockchain.

Not sure if you understand how public key cryptography works? The artists says "this is my key" to their public key. Then they can use their key to sign things, and people can verify the signature because they can check that it belongs to the public key, which the artist has publicly announced.

That doesn't work, because anyone can falsely claim to be the artist.

Re: Why Web3?

#590
post #585

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All theories are good until they come into contact with reality. "Everything will be magically good and people will live in love in peace once there's a decentralized open database with bo gatekeepers" is just as valid a statement if you "don't say anything about implementation".

Not sure what your point is. You've been arguing with me against something I don't understand this whole thread so let me make this clear: I (me, personally) want to build apps on open and unrestricted APIs. I don't know how or if this will happen. I don't claim it will change the world and I definitely don't think it involves blockchain. Now, can you stop being obnoxious?

> Not sure what your point is.

My point is: You keep saying things without offering anything concrete. When people ask you concrete questions you hide behind "I never said aything about implementation"

> I (me, personally) want to

I also want many things.

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