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Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

med.stanford.edu

21–30 of 339 posts

Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#21
post #6

There are surely enough trials on depression per year that a result with 15 participants in the treatment group is to small to start bringing this to public attention? With a sample size this small I don't think it should be in the news at all

It’s already a well established treatment, this is just the accelerated form, confirming it still works.

Accelerated worked better.

Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#23
post #10
post #6

There are surely enough trials on depression per year that a result with 15 participants in the treatment group is to small to start bringing this to public attention? With a sample size this small I don't think it should be in the news at all

Small sample size, but: - Building upon mounting evidence of TMS efficacy in patients with severe, intractable depression. - 79%-- 11 of the 14-- no longer meeting diagnostic criteria for depression after treatment, and another was improved. - It's an RCT showing both massive efficacy and statistical significance. (2 of 14 in placebo group entered remission). I know we like to chant "more n"-- but this is very likely…

Thank you for saying this.

More n is required, yes, but small n results like this are a noteworthy step in the right direction.

There is often good reason why n is small. Statistically significant results like this one pave the way to future experiments with larger n.

Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#24
post #6

There are surely enough trials on depression per year that a result with 15 participants in the treatment group is to small to start bringing this to public attention? With a sample size this small I don't think it should be in the news at all

Agreed, small sample size; but in defense of the researchers, I don't think the general public appreciates how difficult it is to find research participants - nevermind a lot of them. And, ones that remain adherent to study protocol throughout it's entirety, so their data points can be included.

It's also extremely expensive, and unless you're a god at writing grant proposals, most uni research labs are cash poor.

There's a reason most studies don't have lots of participants, and in most cases it's not laziness on the part of the researchers.

Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#25

weird how people can often become depressed due to actual real-world experiences like grief or loneliness, but slap a magnet on em and they can go into remission. Makes you wonder whether they'll go into remission for a while and then slip back into depression if the environmental factors are still there. I guess if it can knock you out of a depression where the trigger is no longer present but the trauma persists, t…

At one point I was in ER close to death from large clot. Doctors had been treating my clotting disorder with Prozac. Since clearly I was just making up symptoms due to my “depression”

Anyway Doctor was explaining the damage to lungs and odds of survival, but I was totally chill about it thanks to Prozac.

Plus side doctors finally believed me that I wasn’t making up stroke symptoms.

Sometimes depression has a real cause that needs dealing with.

Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#27
post #10
post #6

There are surely enough trials on depression per year that a result with 15 participants in the treatment group is to small to start bringing this to public attention? With a sample size this small I don't think it should be in the news at all

Small sample size, but: - Building upon mounting evidence of TMS efficacy in patients with severe, intractable depression. - 79%-- 11 of the 14-- no longer meeting diagnostic criteria for depression after treatment, and another was improved. - It's an RCT showing both massive efficacy and statistical significance. (2 of 14 in placebo group entered remission). I know we like to chant "more n"-- but this is very likely…

I'd be curious to know if any other executive/mental function changed, something that may not have been measured before or after the treatment; not feeling depressed, self-reported, is not necessarily the same as having the same functionality as someone who's not depressed.

Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#28

weird how people can often become depressed due to actual real-world experiences like grief or loneliness, but slap a magnet on em and they can go into remission. Makes you wonder whether they'll go into remission for a while and then slip back into depression if the environmental factors are still there. I guess if it can knock you out of a depression where the trigger is no longer present but the trauma persists, t…

It’s not just environmental factors that cause chronic depression. Sometimes the environmental factors are the “trigger” that start depression in a person predisposed to it.

Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#29
post #20
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this also imply the possibility of the inverse, magnetically making people depressed?

This is a great comment. I've always been a little uncomfortable with the thought of this magnetic treatment in a way I couldn't put into words and this nails it. I'm willing to trust, perhaps naively, that everyone is getting the same Prozac tablets. But how does the skill of the practitioner and maintenance of their magnetic treatment device affect outcomes? It's almost like a surgery, but I'm not sure who's actual…

The trial used fMRI data to find a cortical area that has functional connectivity with the DLPFC. That area is then targeted with a neuronavigation system (similar to AR), that helps the clinician place the TMS coil at the right spot and the right angle. This in addition to the magnitude of the pulses being based on the patient's threshold (e.g. minimum amount of stimulation that causes motor movement when used over the motor cortex) is what is meant by "personalized".

It's also of note that the treatment takes place over multiple days and there's multiple sessions in a day. During that time, patients are continuously evaluated. This trial was also only used on patients with treatment-resistant depression (i.e. have tried many different medications and forms of therapy, some included ECT) and were screened as such. From my understanding, the treatment was explored as a "last resort" for those that could find no other medical relief, but this obviously has further implications.

Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#30
post #26

I've been dealing with depression for over 15 years. I can only hope that this becomes available to the masses.

Note that this is an enhancement to an existing therapy. Depending on where you are in the world and the healthcare providers you have access to, the existing therapy called Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation (TMS) may be an option.
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