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PHP will switch to git

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Re: PHP will switch to git

#61

Post by pwaring »

LeafStorm wrote: post #18
irrumator wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PHP has been mirrored on github for awhile already if you want to follow it and stuff: https://github.com/php I don't see what difference having a git.php.net repo vs a github one will make. It's the same vcs...

True, but git.php.net would be under their control with regards to what kind of infrastructure they want to set up on it. If they hosted it on GitHub, they would have to rely on GitHub's infrastructure instead of being able to develop and maintain their own.

Isn't a major selling point of GitHub the fact that you don't have to develop and maintain your own infrastructure, because they've already set everything up for you?

Re: PHP will switch to git

#62

Post by j_col »

socratic wrote: post #59
georgieporgie wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Git appears to be fast becoming the standard DVCS. Whenever I read a statement about popularity of technology, the first thing I do is check the job ratios: http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=cvs%2C+subversion%2C+git&#... Git has been picking up speed, but Subversion seems to be (nearly) matching its growth. This makes me feel slightly less bad that all my personal projects are checked into Subversion on Dreamhost. :-…

You present an interesting tool for settling such debates. However, I believe the more appropriate URL would be: http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=git%2C+hg%2C+mercurial%2C+... Obviously, cvs and svn will be with us for some time still, but those are not distributed version control systems (DVCS). However, you raise a good question: is distributed version control so much better than centralized version control that w…

> However, you raise a good question: is distributed version control so much better than centralized version control that we will all eventually be using a DVCS? Or are cvs and svn so much easier to understand for new and/or low quality developers that cvs, svn, and others will be with us forever?

Well, I guess I must be one of those low quality developers, as I have yet to hear/read a compelling argument that would motivate me not to use SVN.

I have always considered the source control problem to be solved: distributed version control attempts to solve a problem that I don't have, and never had while working on major projects with distributed teams in the past.

Re: PHP will switch to git

#63

Post by roel_v »

kneath wrote: post #34
beaumartinez wrote: post #17

The votes are a stark contrast to those of the core Python developers when they were voting on which DVCS to migrate to[1]—although understandably they favoured Mercurial, they disfavoured git. (Bazaar got a good share of votes as well.) The victor's margin was much smaller. This was all early-2009, though. I wonder if git's increasing popularity has swayed the core PHP developers? [1] http://www.python.org/dev/peps/…

Look at the numbers for uninformed. Really what that survey showed is that the voters were uninformed about their choices. As a rational human, I look at that data and conclude that the survey was inconclusive.

Not saying that I disagree, but how do you look at votes and conclude that those who cast them were uninformed? Or am I misunderstanding you?

Re: PHP will switch to git

#64

Post by lamby »

praptak wrote: post #60
beaumartinez wrote: post #17

The votes are a stark contrast to those of the core Python developers when they were voting on which DVCS to migrate to[1]—although understandably they favoured Mercurial, they disfavoured git. (Bazaar got a good share of votes as well.) The victor's margin was much smaller. This was all early-2009, though. I wonder if git's increasing popularity has swayed the core PHP developers? [1] http://www.python.org/dev/peps/…

Mercurial is written in Python - as a Python developer I can attest to the phenomenon of Python developers preferring software written in Python. Part of this is rational, part of this is pure "my tribe" bias (by the way, I use and like git, don't know Mercurial at all.) PHP developers are less likely to be affected by that.

> PHP developers are less likely to be affected by that.

We won't know until someone writes a DVCS in PHP..

Re: PHP will switch to git

#65

Post by pilif »

zbowling wrote: post #57
jlogsdon wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This only provides repo level access control. They want ACL's to control down to the branch level.

Think certially and not distributed there :-) This is handled in projects like the Linux kernel. Could easily enough have the commitor push to a different repo than he pulls from. Then you could have person manually review pull his changes into manager (like Linus does with Linux).. or if you wanted some automation, have a script import his changes if they match a set of rules. The other option is submodules.

> Then you could have person manually review pull his changes into manager (like Linus does with Linux)

this assumes that there are enough trusted people in the PHP project with enough time to spend for doing nothing but reviewing pull requests.

> The other option is submodules.

that's a very good idea, especially when you consider how modularized PHP's build system already is. Give them time though. Moving from SVN to git is already a huge step in the right direction, even though the keep most of the old model the same.

Once all of that works nicely, a further step can be to move to submodules.

Re: PHP will switch to git

#66

Post by fragsworth »

whacker wrote: post #54
fragsworth wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To add further evidence toward your argument, consider also the alternative name, "svn": http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=cvs%2C+subversion%2C+svn%2... The popularity would actually be the sum of both.

Not necessarily. Some entries might refer to both but be in the same entry. So the correct way to calculate totals would be `subversion + svn - (subersion and svn)`

You're right, but in my experience any mention of subversion in a job description tends to only happen once in the document.

Re: PHP will switch to git

#67

Post by praptak »

roel_v wrote: post #63
kneath wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at the numbers for uninformed. Really what that survey showed is that the voters were uninformed about their choices. As a rational human, I look at that data and conclude that the survey was inconclusive.

Not saying that I disagree, but how do you look at votes and conclude that those who cast them were uninformed? Or am I misunderstanding you?

If I understand correctly, there is an explicit 'uninformed' option to choose.

Re: PHP will switch to git

#68

Post by roel_v »

praptak wrote: post #67
roel_v wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not saying that I disagree, but how do you look at votes and conclude that those who cast them were uninformed? Or am I misunderstanding you?

If I understand correctly, there is an explicit 'uninformed' option to choose.

Oh we were talking about the Python votes, not the PHP ones, sorry.

Re: PHP will switch to git

#69

Post by rimantas »

skeptical wrote: post #27
d0m wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well Git is simply great. It's fast, it's powerful, there's a very helpful community, it's integrated everywhere, there are well made and useful online repository (Yes Github, but others too), the list goes on and on. Yes, there are bazaar, mercurial and probably dozen of others, but there's also git. I'm not sure I get your point. I think what you don't like is that they chose to jump on git without real reason inst…

My point is rather simple: Everybody is jumping in the git/github bandwagen but the huge majority doesn't appear to be able to state practical advantage of git besides github popularity. That is my point. Not saying that there are no advantages, but heck, changing to something else because "it should be good, everyone else is doing it" is plain stupid... and very silly. And those are attributes we wouldn't want to we…

Who are "we"? Someone making assumptions about the motivation of others?

  the huge majority doesn't appear to be able
How do you know that? Did you interview the huge majority yourself? Git has many important advantages over svn and they are no secret.

Re: PHP will switch to git

#70

Post by jarofgreen »

Some folk jumping to conclusions in the comments here ...

The linked message is one post on an internal mailing list. It was intended as a summary of the votes, for the voters. It has no broader context of the situation they face or no links to any debates that might have happened before because of the audience it was aimed at.

If anyone from PHP internals wants to tell us about the background of this decision that would be really interesting.

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