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Lessons from my PhD

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Re: Lessons from my PhD

#61

Post by keeptrying »

xab31 wrote: post #38

My big eye-openers (some from postdoc) were more about the sociology of science than the day-to-day productivity: - Even the most blatantly wrong and illogical published work can only be displaced by another publication that explains/does the same phenomenon better; i.e., people are going to keep believing in phlogiston until someone shows them oxygen. If you simply point out inconsistencies in phlogiston theory, in…

Beautifully put.

Your observations aptly apply to industry as well except for your final one regarding the incentive structure.

Thank you for commenting.

Re: Lessons from my PhD

#62

Post by jiggunjer »

pezzana wrote: post #16

Missing from this actionable survey is the skill of answering questions that haven't yet been answered in the secondary literature (books, reviews) or even primary literature (journals). This is, of course, what research and a PhD is all about in the end. In my experience, this fact was the #1 reason why some peers dropped out of PhD programs. They joined expecting a continuation of undergraduate education, which con…

Those dead ends are negative results. While not easily publishable they can form the bulk of a thesis. Many people get demotivated because they treat a thesis like a journal publication. I, for one, was glad I finally didn't need to sex up the language to convince some editor.

Re: Lessons from my PhD

#63

Post by thoms_a »

ModernMech wrote: post #36
neom wrote: post #32

My wife is finishing up her PhD in American History and I can tell she's getting bored, at least demotivated reading a billion books a week. I've seen this motivation decline in a lot of founders as well 4/5 years into their startups, but I've not seen much reignite the fire. Can anyone recommend any specific tips for staying motivated through a PhD?

Your wife is bored because she’s gotten what she can out of the program, and the dissertation is a slog. I had the same experience. This is why there is a term for people who do the whole program but drop out without finishing the dissertation: ABD (all but dissertation). It’s the one non-degree people feel justified to list on their resume, because it takes at least 4 years to get there, and it’s still quite an achi…

Just have to chime in and state that this extremely sage advice that is rare to find on HN, where credentialism is (rightfully so) looked down upon. Whether we like it or not, credentials are a very powerful social signal in our society, with very real benefits. If you've spent 3 years in a PhD program, you should absolutely finish unless you have a very compelling alternative opportunity that cannot wait.

A secret that no one often admits is that most PhDs get more out of the credential than advertised, because they aren't a von Neumann or a Fermi, whose credentials never mattered because everybody knew they were one in a billion geniuses.

Re: Lessons from my PhD

#64

Post by BeetleB »

tchalla wrote: post #23
pezzana wrote: post #16

Missing from this actionable survey is the skill of answering questions that haven't yet been answered in the secondary literature (books, reviews) or even primary literature (journals). This is, of course, what research and a PhD is all about in the end. In my experience, this fact was the #1 reason why some peers dropped out of PhD programs. They joined expecting a continuation of undergraduate education, which con…

> In my experience, this fact was the #1 reason why some peers dropped out of PhD programs. They joined expecting a continuation of undergraduate education, which consists largely of recapitulating what appears in the secondary literature. Instead, what they got in graduate school was the expectation that they would be producing the primary literature. That's a very different game. Hit the nail on the head. I would l…

> Suddenly, in a Ph.D - not only do you not know the answer, you don't know the question too.

Mirroring what tasogare said: There are a lot of research professors who will not give you the flexibility of finding the question. They often are paying you to be an RA, and will want you to work on their topics, not yours.

This may vary per discipline. In the circles I was in, this was the norm, though. Some professors were open to you choosing your own topic, but the "contract" was similar: If they are funding your research, then you should work on your own topic "on your own time".

Re: Lessons from my PhD

#65

Post by yt-sdb »

BeetleB wrote: post #64
tchalla wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In my experience, this fact was the #1 reason why some peers dropped out of PhD programs. They joined expecting a continuation of undergraduate education, which consists largely of recapitulating what appears in the secondary literature. Instead, what they got in graduate school was the expectation that they would be producing the primary literature. That's a very different game. Hit the nail on the head. I would l…

> Suddenly, in a Ph.D - not only do you not know the answer, you don't know the question too. Mirroring what tasogare said: There are a lot of research professors who will not give you the flexibility of finding the question. They often are paying you to be an RA, and will want you to work on their topics, not yours. This may vary per discipline. In the circles I was in, this was the norm, though. Some professors wer…

I'd frame it this way: a good senior researcher knows when to give a junior researcher the question or not. First-year grad student? Pair them off with a postdoc for fast iterating on an established project. Fourth-year grad student? Push them by letting them flounder a bit and learn to find their own questions.

I agree that in practice, this simply varies a lot by discipline and advisor.

Re: Lessons from my PhD

#66

Post by graycat »

ModernMech wrote: post #49
graycat wrote: post #33

Lessons from my Ph.D.: (1) Role of Math. In most fields of research, the most respected research mathematizes the field, that is, makes progress with math techniques and results. So for Ph.D. research, try to have math play that role. (2) Ugrad Preparation. To be successful with that role of math, have a good ugrad math background. Then maybe get some more math from independent study, work in a career, a Master's pro…

I think a 2 year PhD is very atypical in my field (CS). In my experience I learned a different lesson than you when it comes to 3 and 4. I found that more important than anything, picking an advisor is the way to choose your PhD. They have such an outsized role over your experience, much more than the University, Department, or even the problem IMO. To give some context as to my experience: - PhDs are funded. You get…

Interesting description of the system of academic computer science research and no doubt crucial for some computer science students.

For funding, I got tuition but no stipend.

For an advisor, I didn't want one or really have one. On paper I had two advisors, but I brought my own problem, did my own research, both for the dissertation and some publishable research I did before the qualifying exams, and didn't want, need, or get any advice from either of my advisors.

The best I got from my Ph.D. work was just terrific, fantastically good, powerful, valuable material. But there was a downside: I was attacked by some profs who resented me, wanted me to fail, and tried hard to have me fail. The actual academic work, including the research, was easy; most of the effort was just defending myself from attacks.

I do not now nor have I ever had any desire to be a college professor. I got a Ph.D. to be better qualified for a good career in applied math and computing I had going before my Ph.D.

Now I'm in business for myself. Math is not all there is to my business, but it is an advantage, likely a crucial one. The math is some math I derived together with some advanced pure math, a bit amazing, long in some advanced textbooks but not well appreciated for its potential for applications. The business is based on computing, and I've written all the code, all in Microsoft's .NET (which I like). The computer science used is just (a) the heap data structure used as a priority queue and (b) AVL trees for a cache. At one point I make use of LINPACK -- downloaded the Fortran version; got the Bell Labs program F2C to translate the Fortran code to C; compiled the C code as a DLL; and call it with Microsoft's platform invoke.

I've published in applied math (optimization), mathematical statistics (multivariate, distribution-free), and artificial intelligence. I didn't publish my dissertation research because I wanted, maybe, to SELL it and certainly didn't want to give it away.

Re: Lessons from my PhD

#67

Post by ModernMech »

graycat wrote: post #66
ModernMech wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a 2 year PhD is very atypical in my field (CS). In my experience I learned a different lesson than you when it comes to 3 and 4. I found that more important than anything, picking an advisor is the way to choose your PhD. They have such an outsized role over your experience, much more than the University, Department, or even the problem IMO. To give some context as to my experience: - PhDs are funded. You get…

Interesting description of the system of academic computer science research and no doubt crucial for some computer science students. For funding, I got tuition but no stipend. For an advisor, I didn't want one or really have one. On paper I had two advisors, but I brought my own problem, did my own research, both for the dissertation and some publishable research I did before the qualifying exams, and didn't want, ne…

I’m curious, who paid your tuition? Were you a TA for those two years?

Re: Lessons from my PhD

#68

Post by tchalla »

BeetleB wrote: post #64
tchalla wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In my experience, this fact was the #1 reason why some peers dropped out of PhD programs. They joined expecting a continuation of undergraduate education, which consists largely of recapitulating what appears in the secondary literature. Instead, what they got in graduate school was the expectation that they would be producing the primary literature. That's a very different game. Hit the nail on the head. I would l…

> Suddenly, in a Ph.D - not only do you not know the answer, you don't know the question too. Mirroring what tasogare said: There are a lot of research professors who will not give you the flexibility of finding the question. They often are paying you to be an RA, and will want you to work on their topics, not yours. This may vary per discipline. In the circles I was in, this was the norm, though. Some professors wer…

I know what you and tasogare refer to and I've seen it happen. I had to fight to change my thesis topic 3 times and also change advisors. Of course, it is not simple.

I wouldn't change anything from my initial comment though. Flexibility is not binary - it's a gray scale. If you have ZERO flexibility, you should accept the implication that such a Ph.D will be stripped of some valuable lessons. On the other hand, you can always decide to not do it and move to a different professor. You could also decide if the broad area is ok with you before you take an admission to a lab.

Re: Lessons from my PhD

#69

Post by selimthegrim »

pmyteh wrote: post #37
rgrmrts wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for that perspective. I just finished my applications last month and am anxiously waiting on decisions. I always thought 4 years was the absolute minimum.

It depends on the discipline, the programme, and (particularly) the country. I did mine in the UK, where the funding is for 3 years and the expectation is ≤4. I managed that (modulo two terms of sick and paternity leave) and so do most others in my field. The quickest I saw was 2 years 6 months, by someone with an impossible combination of intelligence and relentless 9-hour productive days. Some take longer (financia…

>In Russia the equivalent isn't even called a PhD.

Are you thinking of Candidat Nauk or habilitation?

Re: Lessons from my PhD

#70

Post by l5870uoo9y »

> Lead or be led > If you show up to a meeting/internship/job expecting to be told what to do, then chances are someone will tell you something to do... Alternatively, if you show up to a meeting/internship/job with a convincing game plan, then chances are people will get out of your way so you can go do it.

Wholeheartedly agree.

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