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“Play-to-Earn” and Bullshit Jobs

paulbutler.org

631–640 of 700 posts

Re: “Play-to-Earn” and Bullshit Jobs

#631
post #461
post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tax avoidance just moves the tax burden around, it doesn't create value. Tax collection and tax compliance does create value, but spending time specifically figuring out how to pay as little taxes as possible creates no value. It see likely that some level of bullshit jobs are an unavoidable side-effects of value producing activities. The interesting part of the idea comes from thinking about how we can structure tho…

I disagree here. Instead of calling it “tax avoidance” let’s just talk about reducing your tax burden as much as possible. This is the prudent move for any individual or tax paying entity. Taking advantage of your roth, 401k, homestead exemption, writing off losses, etc… absolutely provides value to the tax payer. The value is literally more money for the tax payer who can now further participate in the economy. The…

You seem to have entirely missed the point.

> let’s just talk about reducing your tax burden as much as possible

For the purposes of the discussion, it is irrelevant if the overall tax burden should be raised or lowered. Given any target level of tax burden, it is inefficient to meet that tax burden by requiring large amounts of regulatory compliance by tax payers. If you can make tax rules simpler and easier to comply with, then you reduce the amount of bullshit work.

> The accounting industry employs loads of people. Is that not “value"?

Some of it is, some of it isn't. Simply providing jobs alone doesn't always produce value. If so, we could always grow the economy by paying people to dig holes and fill them back in.

Re: “Play-to-Earn” and Bullshit Jobs

#632
post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tax avoidance just moves the tax burden around, it doesn't create value. only if you believe that taxes paid is automatic value added to society. > pay as little taxes as possible creates no value it doesn't create value, it retains value for those who created it.

You should think of it this way. The reasons that tax policies are complex are that the government uses tax incentives both as a "carrot" to control people; and also to buy political support from interest groups who benefit. The tax compliance and tax avoidance jobs should be understood to be part of one of these schemes. Either they're low-level enforcers in the government's heavy-handed tax-based system of control;…

Those are some of the reasons taxes are complicated, but not all of them. In the US the tax compliance industry has directly lobbied to keep the tax system as complex as possible so they can keep extracting rent for doing bullshit work.

The "influence-buying grift" jobs are usually classed as bullshit anyways, so that source of the complexity doesn't change the assessment.

There are potentially valid policy goals served by various tax incentives, but it is still worth considering if there are different tax incentives or other regulatory approaches that would create fewer bullshit jobs. With the political problems of raising taxes, government often choose to offload the costs of policy goals onto the public via creating bullshit jobs that cost more overall but avoid the need for tax increases.

Re: “Play-to-Earn” and Bullshit Jobs

#633
post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://progressquest.com/

Apparently the original idle game (according to wikipedia at least) although modern idle games are probably influenced by Cookie Clicker and others as well. I've occasionally been tempted to play Idle Champions which seems similar.

Idle Champions is fun but the numerical scaling on that game is whacky. It only takes like a month before you're doing 1 googol (1^100) damage and little dwarves or gnolls or rats or whatever drop a similar amount of gold. They say it's to differentiate effectively between linear and exponential scaling, but the end result is just whacky.

It's the only game I've ever played where your damage output is most effectively measured by the size of its exponent

Re: “Play-to-Earn” and Bullshit Jobs

#634
post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> bullshit jobs is a term for jobs that have not yet been automated This is not what the term is intended to mean. "Uber Driver" (or taxi driver) is a job that performs a necessary function but one that may not necessarily need to be done by a human. A bullshit job is one that does not really need to be done, one that provides no value to society at large and exists because of zero-sum games, ego, tradition, etc... I…

By this definition being a soldier is a bullshit job, because the only reason it's needed is because other countries have soldiers as well (i.e. zero sum). But I don't think most people would agree that it can be done away with. Zero sum games are just an unavoidable part of life.

Zero sum games may not be completely avoidable, but that absolutely doesn't meam that the amount of economic activity wasted on zero sum games can't be reduced.

For example, I think the amount of money spent on nuclear weapons programs globally could be reuced significantly with no harm to the world.

Re: “Play-to-Earn” and Bullshit Jobs

#635
> system as inherently Darwinian as capitalism

What we have now is not capitalism. Capitalism requires hard money as a foundation. An inflationary currency whose supply compounds exponentially over time and which people are forced to use is not hard money.

Bullshit jobs are made possible by inflationary money printing. The current crony-capitalist system is only 'Darwinian' for those who are far from the money printers. That's why bullshit office jobs exist mostly in big cities; in close proximity to the largest inflows of newly issued 'capital' into the economy. For those who are close to the inflows of new money, it's a rigged, easy game. No talent involved. It's a game of first in, best dressed. They could throw money out the window and it would come flying back in. In the periphery, the story is completely different. Look up Cantillon effect.

It's easy to devise a scheme whereby you keep borrowing money from a bank to inflate the value of some intangible asset and then use that asset's growing 'value' as collateral against which you can keep borrowing more money and keep inflating that asset's 'value' ad-infinitum. You just keep taking out new, increasingly large loans to make repayments on the old loans. Just like the government does. At any point in time, this zero-sum scheme will always look profitable; you can keep it going so long as the banks allow. Banks will allow it of course, because the collateral 'value' keeps growing. It's only when people start talking about huge numbers like 'quadrillions', 'quintillions' and 'sextillions' that people will start to think something's not right. The game is all about who can feed the banks' own money back to them with as little resistance as possible.

A major reason why Bitcoin is so valuable is that it provides banks with an endless supply of bodies to take out more and increasingly large loans and feed it back to the banks with interest. Bitcoin's growth in value consistently outpaces the growth in interest on loans used to buy that Bitcoin.

Re: “Play-to-Earn” and Bullshit Jobs

#636

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what people don't seem to understand about BitCoin. It is cashflow negative, Money has to keep coming in to keep the price up due to paying miners. It is totally fine if you think BTC is better than the USD or Gold for whatever reason. But Bitcoin is still cashflow negative. You have to keep pumping money into it to keep up its value. Where is that money going to come from? Is it coming from Tether? Is it com…

This is addressed in the original white paper. In a world where BTC is valued at 1M USD/coin you’d also expect a decent amount of day to day usage. Miners could still make decent profits based on transaction fees just from confirming blocks even once the Coinbase rewards stop. I’m not saying that’s currently the case, but that is the design. Also if miners are making a profit off let’s say $40k/coin and the price goe…

> In a world where BTC is valued at 1M USD/coin you’d also expect a decent amount of day to day usage.

Citation needed.

(I don’t see why this should be true at all. If anything I’d intuitively think the opposite: If gold were $1MM/oz I don’t think people would be using it to buy groceries… Unless you’re directly talking about hyperinflation where $1MM isn’t worth a loaf of bread any more.)

Re: “Play-to-Earn” and Bullshit Jobs

#637

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did a report on this game for a client a few months back -- the amount of daily earnings a player can expect has crashed significantly over the past few months, and it's only gotten worse ever since. https://twitter.com/larsiusprime/status/1459191090100244483

That's pretty impressive. What do you know what caused the May 2021 spike? what is your feel of how 'sustainable' the whole eco-system of this game is..

The May Spike: they migrated off of Ethereum and on to their own private blockchain, Ronin, on April 28th, which massively lowered transaction costs and increased transaction speeds. You see this pattern a lot with blockchain games, they migrate off Ethereum onto a proof-of-stake L2 or even L1 and you get a surge.

Sustainability: The entire eco-system is not sustainable at all. The game's revenue model is dependent not on the size of the user base but on the pace of user growth. The majority of their players are "scholars" and are being paid to play the game. They've effectively turned their users into liabilities rather than assets, and Axies themselves and SLP are caught in an inflationary spiral.

If you look at official communications the founders themselves have essentially written off the existing "1.0" version of the game and are promising people that the land-based gameplay and "Battles v2" are going to fix everything.

We analyzed the major issues with their future plans here: https://naavik.co/business-breakdowns/axie-infinity/#whats-n...

There's several problems with Battles v2:

- Their stated plan (as of the report) is to feed more users into the crypto version of the game, which doesn't fix the unsustainable treadmill

- Their original plan was to get Battles v2 onto iOS, Android, and Steam, but many of those platforms have cracked down on Crypto games lately and Axie could have a hard time getting approved for release in App stores

There's even more problems with land-based gameplay:

- There is a finite amount of land

- Land grants resource bonuses and the ability to deploy user-generated minigames

- If you don't have land you will have to pay a landlord to access its benefits

- Land goes for extremely high prices (and will thus have very high rents)

This is an extremely puzzling model for a User Generated Content platform. Land speculators will buy all the land and charge rent to the people who actually want to create value. There is no limitation to the number of "slots" available for publishing on Steam or app stores. Given that I have to make an experience that will only run on Axie's platform, why would I invest the time to do that just to pay rent to a virtual middle-man for the privilege of creating value for Sky Mavis?

Basically, they're headed for a land shortage / housing crisis, which is something we've also observed in the 30 year history of MMO's. Anytime you have a game with true "land like assets" you get these shortages and perverse incentives, with scalpers hoarding productive assets they can use as leverage, and it leads to a sort of recession. It has eerie parallels to the real-world housing crisis we're living through right now!

https://www.gamedeveloper.com/business/digital-real-estate-a...

Sky Mavis could realize this and try to change things so that there's a lot of communal land available, or just make more land on demand, or any number of other things. But they're caught in a trap. They promised all these land investors that new land wouldn't be created and that land would be this excellent investment that lets them collect value from all the people building on Axie in the future, kind of like snapping up domain names in the early days of the internet. So, Sky Mavis has to choose between opening the doors for landless peasants, or protecting the land values of landed aristocrats. Either choice will cause problems for them.

Re: “Play-to-Earn” and Bullshit Jobs

#638
post #32

In the late 2000s, as a teenager, I was gifted a Runescape account. This account had level 80+ woodcutting, allowing one to chop magic trees - which would produce the most expensive lumber in the game. It took a staggering number of real hours to achieve this skill level, we're talking several hundred hours minimum. At some point I had realized that there were different sketchy websites that would buy and sell the in…

I know a lot of people have fond memories of this kind of thing, but from a designer perspective, is it good that a game is so boring that players are willing to pay real-world money to skip parts of it? Runescape set up a system that was so grind-heavy that players broke server rules and wrote automated scripts to grind for them, and other players gave them money to do that. Because the minute-to-minute gameplay of…

This kind of grinding is probably the part I enjoy most about games. It's almost meditative. I usually play games to kill time anyways. I guess that's why I enjoyed games like FF8, WoW, and Maple Story.

Re: “Play-to-Earn” and Bullshit Jobs

#639
post #613

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(To help qualify my perspective and insistence... I was involved in stopping a long term predatory crime this year where digital assets were used to help protect the victim against perpetrators using dollars. As you might imagine, having clear records of transactions is likely to be more helpful to the targets than the perpetrators in these cases.)

You can use local heavies to protect yourself from bullies. That doesn't mean those heavies won't commit crimes in their spare time.

To be clear, I'm talking about the bookkeeping element of an in-progress federal investigation involving theft of corporate equity and corporate tax fraud. The target was legally disabled.

Re: “Play-to-Earn” and Bullshit Jobs

#640
post #601

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The absolute most enjoyable open world MMOs I've played had essentially no content. Players forged their own content in the form of geopolitics, war, economics, and copious communication (propaganda and shittalking, largely). They felt like a completely unplanned, natural simulation of militaristic human societies from hundreds or thousands of years ago. Probably not ideal in real life, but very fun for a game. Wha…

It sounds a bit like EVE Online, which is also an MMO where the base game is really just a foundation for everything else that happens.

Eve had a huge grind situation at least when I played it 10 odd years ago. You need to skill up, make isks, buy fancy ships and blow em up. I guess you could putter around in a tiny beginner ship - but considering there wasn’t much dog fighting skills involved, it was lame. You could build a corp - again need isks.
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