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The software that flies SpaceX rockets and starships

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Re: The software that flies SpaceX rockets and starships

#11

It is fascinating that they solve robustly 50 times per second a control problem and handle gracefully numerical issues. Granted they have dedicated hardware to do so that fast, but it never stops to amaze me.

The data rate for flight control systems (air or space) is not that great but the requirement for reliability is. That’s not just an absence of software defects but also reliability in the face of hardware failures. (Compare the A320 flight envelope protection to the 737 MAX MCAS.)

Re: The software that flies SpaceX rockets and starships

#13
post #8

If someone from SpaceX is reading (after 5pm, of course), can we get a more nitty-gritty of what's going on software-wise on your end? I'd love to see what control and embedded wizardry you guys are up to.

There is a Reddit AmA by SpaceX software team that has some important details!

A direct link would be very much appreciated

Re: The software that flies SpaceX rockets and starships

#14
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a Reddit AmA by SpaceX software team that has some important details!

A direct link would be very much appreciated

https://old.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/ncj4vz/we_are_the_s...

Re: The software that flies SpaceX rockets and starships

#16

Interesting that they are doing updates at only 10 and 50Hz. I had kinda assumed they'd be looking at much higher frequencies for telemetry especially for things like the rocket motor metrics

50Hz is pretty damn fast for anything happening at rocket ship scale (i.e. gimbaling of engines). 10Hz seems fine for a more strategic roll-up of all subsystems wherein you would have to do more complex logic each round. The physics are pretty stable at any rate considering the masses involved. If we were talking about controlling a 10g nanodrone (hypothetically), 50hz would probably be cause for concern.

For a SpaceX mission, there isn't a lot that can go wrong in 2 hundredths of a second that you could have magically resolved if you saw it 1 hundredth of a second earlier (i.e. at a 100hz rate).

Re: The software that flies SpaceX rockets and starships

#17
post #9

Interesting that they are doing updates at only 10 and 50Hz. I had kinda assumed they'd be looking at much higher frequencies for telemetry especially for things like the rocket motor metrics

I found this also interesting. I can see how it simplifies the mathematics to use a fixed time interval. Can anyone experienced comment if 10Hz is very different or the same as vehicle control systems such as a modern car? Also, are these systems fixed or floating point? Fixed time intervals would help keep numerical instability of floats in check (however I'd really hope this is more formally understood for such a s…

I've been working on the engine control unit for trucks. I think the fastest control loops were 100Hz (but that was only a few), fixed time intervals. Then, of course, you have the fuel injection that is controlled by its own processor, independent of the ECU scheduling.

Nowadays I work with satellite SW. Most of the control loops are pretty slow. The fastest ones are those controlling gyros and reaction wheels that run in 5 or 10Hz

Re: The software that flies SpaceX rockets and starships

#19

Interesting that they are doing updates at only 10 and 50Hz. I had kinda assumed they'd be looking at much higher frequencies for telemetry especially for things like the rocket motor metrics

I don't know what I'm talking about, but I believe in optimal control a rocket's orientation changes very slowly and the rocket is designed for aerodynamic stability. 50Hz is also probably much faster than the engine can gimbal or throttle. So if a 50Hz tick is too slow to respond to some stimulus, something has gone horribly wrong.

Re: The software that flies SpaceX rockets and starships

#20
post #6

Interesting that they are doing updates at only 10 and 50Hz. I had kinda assumed they'd be looking at much higher frequencies for telemetry especially for things like the rocket motor metrics

I thought that too initially, but if you think about the physics it makes sense.. the larger the mass the more stable the object, the lower the frequency of acceleration needed to adjust it's trajectory. Also even though it's dynamic, it's not articulated or anything like dynamic robots. Take the opposite, a little quad copter, very low mass, will need very high frequencies. I used to manually fly miniature remote co…

> the larger the mass the more stable the object

Not really. Only when scaling mass, margin of error, and forgetting thrust/gravity.

And even if you scaled mass, thrust, and margin of error proportionally, you'd still have an object exactly as stable as before (force X applied to the small object gives you the same acceleration as proportionally scaled force Xs applied to a larger object). Gravity accelerates all things the same, and so do proportionally stronger thrusters.

But being off by one meter can destroy a small drone just as well as a large spacecraft, so you don't have the luxury of scaling your margin of error by significant amounts.

The only reason larger objects appear more stable to humans is because we, and the environment[1], tend to apply relatively weaker forces to them, and also you don't tend to notice they're already moving at 5m/s because of their size.

[1]Larger objects will better compensate for "truly random" forces, if their size causes them to encounter more of them, canceling them out and/or they're generally small.

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