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“Play-to-Earn” and Bullshit Jobs

paulbutler.org

431–440 of 700 posts

Re: “Play-to-Earn” and Bullshit Jobs

#431

You mean like the people paid to wait in line for other people at US gov hearings? https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/2/13/18223836/p... Sounds awfully similar to "completing tasks contrived by a game designer"

Paying for someone to stand in line for you isn't a bullshit job tho - it's generating value because the person paying is obviously otherwise occupied with a better use of their time, and thus can afford to pay someone else to stay in the queue.

Re: “Play-to-Earn” and Bullshit Jobs

#432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your description of banks is correct. Your description of BTC is wrong. You're missing an important fact. The price of BTC can, and does, change. When it changes, the market value of all BTC changes. If the value of all BTC goes up, new value (not money) has been created. Also, lots of people take loans to buy BTC. This is called "leverage".

Ah but a change in the price of BTC does not in fact create any value - it just means that that $100 now corresponds to less BTC. You can profit from that fluctuation, by being on the right side of the cash exchange at two separate points in time. Somebody else will be on the wrong side of that exchange (well, in aggregate anyway - there will be many somebodies on either side) and will suffer a corresponding loss. Si…

The same (incorrect) reasoning applies to literally anything you don't physically use including USD, equities, gold, land, etc.

Re: “Play-to-Earn” and Bullshit Jobs

#433
post #283

The thing I really like about this article is that, at least in my mind, it really helped me clarify what I think of as "Bullshit Jobs". It's not so much "do you consider your job useless", but it's more along the lines of "Is your job set up to fulfill tasks that were, generally, arbitrarily designed by some gatekeeper?" A great example of this is tax departments at large companies that look for tax avoidance strate…

> "Is your job set up to fulfill tasks that were, generally, arbitrarily designed by some gatekeeper?" But isn’t this basically every job that doesn’t directly support a human need (like food, clothing, shelter)? Just arbitrarily working to meet some other human’s desires?

I'm not arguing that it's about meetings some other human's desires. Indeed, jobs that give real pleasure or sense of accomplishment to other people (actors, massage therapists, yoga teachers, personal trainers, artists, language coaches, yada yada) I find incredibly valuable.

I'm talking about when someone, specifically a gatekeeper, creates what is basically a little tedious maze for you to run, not for their own pleasure, not even for someone else's pleasure, but often just to justify their own job, usually in a "CYA" fashion.

Re: “Play-to-Earn” and Bullshit Jobs

#434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is there a there there without an underlying token that's gone up XX% in the last N months and everyone hopes will still go up XX% in the next N months? Alternatively, even simpler: where is the money coming from ? A bunch of people playing a game are a closed system, and no value is created by playing the game. If the only reason why players are earning money from this game is because more people are continually b…

This is what people don't seem to understand about BitCoin. It is cashflow negative, Money has to keep coming in to keep the price up due to paying miners. It is totally fine if you think BTC is better than the USD or Gold for whatever reason. But Bitcoin is still cashflow negative. You have to keep pumping money into it to keep up its value. Where is that money going to come from? Is it coming from Tether? Is it com…

How is that different at all from fiat currencies? Every electronic transaction you make, like credit card or money transfers, has fees. Central banks have to keep pumping money into the economy so we can have the same nominal amount of cash in the system(albeit with lower value, because inflation).

So, my question is, is fiat currency cashflow positive? How?

Re: “Play-to-Earn” and Bullshit Jobs

#435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is there a there there without an underlying token that's gone up XX% in the last N months and everyone hopes will still go up XX% in the next N months? Alternatively, even simpler: where is the money coming from ? A bunch of people playing a game are a closed system, and no value is created by playing the game. If the only reason why players are earning money from this game is because more people are continually b…

This is what people don't seem to understand about BitCoin. It is cashflow negative, Money has to keep coming in to keep the price up due to paying miners. It is totally fine if you think BTC is better than the USD or Gold for whatever reason. But Bitcoin is still cashflow negative. You have to keep pumping money into it to keep up its value. Where is that money going to come from? Is it coming from Tether? Is it com…

Just about every project is cashflow negative. Most projects start Worthing $0 and rises to another number later on

Re: “Play-to-Earn” and Bullshit Jobs

#436

I didnt read much of the thread but I will assume that most of the people here is aware of how every single NFT game is just a ponzi. But I've lived myself, what the author mentions as a "way to lift people out of poverty.", from the era before NFT or "play to earn" games existed. I come from Venezuela, a full 3rd world country and I was "lucky" to play an MMO (lineage 2) during my young days and somehow I was good a…

Wild story, thanks for sharing.

Re: “Play-to-Earn” and Bullshit Jobs

#437
post #423
post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tax avoidance just moves the tax burden around, it doesn't create value. Tax collection and tax compliance does create value, but spending time specifically figuring out how to pay as little taxes as possible creates no value. It see likely that some level of bullshit jobs are an unavoidable side-effects of value producing activities. The interesting part of the idea comes from thinking about how we can structure tho…

> Tax avoidance just moves the tax burden around, it doesn't create value. only if you believe that taxes paid is automatic value added to society. > pay as little taxes as possible creates no value it doesn't create value, it retains value for those who created it.

If you don't believe that government has any value, then there isn't much to discuss with you as your views on the topic are extremely fringe and we likely won't agree on much.

If you do believe that government can create value, then it easily follows that paying / collecting taxes can create value. There is no need to assume that taxes always provide value or that all parts of government create value (since that would also be a extremely fringe view.)

> it doesn't create value, it retains value for those who created it.

Yes, at the cost of higher taxes on others who created value or a reduced revenue for the government.

If you believe the goverent needs less revenue, then lower taxes. The "bullshit jobs" are created when you have a complex set of rules and loopholes that incentives wasting manpower to find ways to dodge paying taxes. We would be better off just having lower tax rates and less effort wasted dodging taxes.

Re: “Play-to-Earn” and Bullshit Jobs

#438
post #32

In the late 2000s, as a teenager, I was gifted a Runescape account. This account had level 80+ woodcutting, allowing one to chop magic trees - which would produce the most expensive lumber in the game. It took a staggering number of real hours to achieve this skill level, we're talking several hundred hours minimum. At some point I had realized that there were different sketchy websites that would buy and sell the in…

Anyone interested in some nostalgia?

Long ago there was an MMO called Ultima Online. At one point gold on there reached the point that it was more expensive than the Italian lira. This was in a kooky time in 1999 when everything was at a peak. Here's the old article.

The NYT just wasn't having it.

THE WAY WE LIVE NOW THE NEW ECONOMY Money for Nothing A new breed of Internet profiteers is spinning virtual gold into hard currency. By JOHN COOK

Fixer-upper w/moat: The real market for imaginary property in Ultima is booming. enjamin Schriefer and Michael Gmeinwieser make money the new-fashioned way: they sell stuff that doesn't exist. And their customers, who pay them in cold, hard cash, don't mind one bit.

https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/library/magazine...

Re: “Play-to-Earn” and Bullshit Jobs

#439
post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now you've made me wonder: those hours I spent mesmerised by watching the colourful display of Windows 95 defragging the disc, would I have paid a monthly subscription for it? What if they'd added achievements, or leveling up? "Congratulations! Your wizard can now restructure directory chains!"

I've seen people watching mesmerized as a Roomba vacuumed the floor. A time saving device indeed!

Don’t forget to prep the floors before every run!

Re: “Play-to-Earn” and Bullshit Jobs

#440
post #250

Here's patio11's thread: https://twitter.com/patio11/status/1459682519360491523 I was shocked to see A16z recently investing $150M in Axie Infinity and doubling down on their justification of play-to-earn as a coherent concept, as if it's not fundamentally a pyramid scheme. It's lowered my expectation of what passes for thought leadership in our industry.

Thought leadership sounds a lot like mind steering.
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