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Want to be an actuary? Odds are, you’ll fail the test

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Re: Want to be an actuary? Odds are, you’ll fail the test

#12
post #3

From experience from a few close friends: Actuarial science is always in the lists of top jobs but it's a terrible career. It's quite limiting and doesn't pay particularly well. The companies are all old and stagnant and the amount of time put in to studying for exams is taxing. It'd be much better ROI to put that time into studying for sw-eng roles. That is, unless you're particularly interested in memorizing math f…

> unless you're particularly interested in memorizing math formulas for insurance calculations

Note that the formulas in question are the opposite of interesting formulas. They're just made-up regulatory rules about how much capital an insurance company has to hold in order to sell insurance. Everyone agrees that some amount of capital needs to be held. Everyone, except maybe some of the "actuarial scientists" themselves, understands that this isn't a scientific endeavor like discovering the laws of General Relativity, it is an arbitrary and convoluted "rule of thumb" type of formula, but it's better than nothing because you really do need to force insurance companies to hold some minimum capital and you need some kind of standard formula to calculate that capital in order for there to be a level playing field between insurance companies.

I think actuarial science undergrad students choose that career because it is one of the safest choices for someone who is good at math but has no interest in science or technology. They are allured by the promise of steady employment and a $100,000 salary, and vague visions of being a high paid "math AND business expert" for a big insurance company where they will get to make decisions involving large sums of money with scientific precision using advanced mathematical concepts.

By the time your young actuary has started working, they are already too deep in to be able to change careers. They made the "safe" choice, now they have to live with it. At first everything seems new and exciting. But 10 years into it, they have settled down roots and family somewhere in the middle of Iowa (because that's where the insurance company is located), knee deep into spreadsheets calculating "Solvency II" formulas for "quarter end." They don't get to make any business decisions, they barely understand how their employers' business even really works, and their career has plateaued at a mediocre level despite having spent 10 years writing all of the available actuarial exams. Unfortunately, that is the only employer of actuaries in town, so they are completely marooned. They spend their free time learning the latest tips and tricks about Excel VBA programming, watching the movie "About Schmidt" repeatedly, and mistakenly envying their peers who work in banking instead of insurance

Re: Want to be an actuary? Odds are, you’ll fail the test

#13
post #2

I feel very difficult exams should be commonplace. Everyone should be held to very high standards. It's surprising how many professions don't do this. For example, I've been to several physical therapists who barely seemed to understand what was wrong with me even after several visits. Each gave me what seemed like the same standard routine that they give everyone with problem.

I think this is a terrible idea. Exams are terrible proxies for ability to do the work. At best they seem like a measure of intelligence, conscientiousness and maybe memory. What makes you think that a very difficult exam will improve the ability of your PT?

Investment management is a classic example of this. CFA has a low pass rate (it isn't that hard really, tens of thousands of people do the exam in India and China so that impacts the pass rate), most people do it but, ofc, the really useful knowledge can't be tested...picking a stock isn't like passing a exam. And worse, you get lots of people who pass the exam, acquire false sense of confidence, and then make mistakes (or don't ever move beyond the "parrot" level of intelligence).

I think maths is another one, as conventionally taught. I hated maths at school because it was largely sitting down in a room, doing the same thing over and over again like a computer...quite reasonably, I asked myself whether this was a productive use of my time. As an adult, I have taught myself everything again, it was far more enjoyable and useful because I actually took the time to understand the concepts (and no, none of the stuff I did at school was useful, it was just mindless computation).

I don't necessarily think exams are a bad idea but they don't produce knowledge, experience, or real expertise. They are often misused (as is certification, I knew a guy who worked as a fund manager and was a senior member of the CFA for ethics and standards...he stole from employees regularly).

Re: Want to be an actuary? Odds are, you’ll fail the test

#15
If it took a math professor over 3 years to do it, it sounds tough. What is the reward? I consistently see actuarial science as a top earning degree in certain papers, but there's not much color on whether it's worthwhile. How many openings are there for each person who passes, what are working conditions like?

Re: Want to be an actuary? Odds are, you’ll fail the test

#16
Is the answer to the question at the top 0.33?

let pc = purchased_collision, pd = purchased_disability

we have:

2 * P(pc) = P(pd) P(pc & pd) = 0.15

so

P(pc) * P(pd) = 0.15 2 P(pc)^2 = 0.15 --> P(pc) = 0.274, P(pd) = 0.548

So the probability of neither pc nor pd is

!P(pc | pd) = 1 - P(pc) - P(pd) + P(pc & pd) = 0.328 ~= 0.33?

The addition of P(pc & pd) was to take account of the double counting of pc and pd.

Please let me know if I've made a mistake!

Re: Want to be an actuary? Odds are, you’ll fail the test

#17
post #3

From experience from a few close friends: Actuarial science is always in the lists of top jobs but it's a terrible career. It's quite limiting and doesn't pay particularly well. The companies are all old and stagnant and the amount of time put in to studying for exams is taxing. It'd be much better ROI to put that time into studying for sw-eng roles. That is, unless you're particularly interested in memorizing math f…

> put that time into studying for sw-eng

why not both? an environment of stagnant companies offering jobs involving difficult calculations sounds ripe for disruption- is it being strangled by regulation or something?

Re: Want to be an actuary? Odds are, you’ll fail the test

#18
post #2

I feel very difficult exams should be commonplace. Everyone should be held to very high standards. It's surprising how many professions don't do this. For example, I've been to several physical therapists who barely seemed to understand what was wrong with me even after several visits. Each gave me what seemed like the same standard routine that they give everyone with problem.

Some 17 years ago, I got my teaching credential.

Two observations:

1. The test was ridiculously easy. Junior high–level math and reading. And yet teacher candidates still failed it.

2. For K-12 teaching, the knowledge that was tested was pretty much irrelevant for the job. What matters for more than being able to find the length of the hypotenuse of a right triangle or to comprehend an expository paragraph (which is not to say that these aren't useful skills) is the ability to manage a classroom. Almost none of the teacher prep I had was geared towards that single most important skill (which I, unfortunately, was not so great at) and which is what will make the difference between succeeding and failing in a K-12 teaching career.

I think this generalizes to other fields as well. Think about all the tree-traversal BS we've all gone through in a software engineer interview and how little that relates to the actual work that we do and how the hard stuff is much less the programming and more the learning the code base and business.

Re: Want to be an actuary? Odds are, you’ll fail the test

#19
post #2

I feel very difficult exams should be commonplace. Everyone should be held to very high standards. It's surprising how many professions don't do this. For example, I've been to several physical therapists who barely seemed to understand what was wrong with me even after several visits. Each gave me what seemed like the same standard routine that they give everyone with problem.

The over use of occupational licensing has some well documented negative effects, see https://www.econlib.org/library/Enc1/OccupationalLicensing.h... for some points about it. However, physical therapists already have an occupational licensing exam. You could argue that it’s not hard enough, as it does have a high pass rate for those who have graduated from a PT university program, but then you start drifting into “n…

> The over use of occupational licensing has some well documented negative effects

That's because it's done wrong.

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