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Are jobs obsolete?

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Re: Are jobs obsolete?

#221

Post by duairc »

Spyro7 wrote: post #209

Why is this being upvoted? This article begins with a questionable premise and then descends straight into misinformation. The problems in the USPS did not begin with email. They began with a highly questionable requirement that the USPS fund a plan to fully cover the estimated future health care costs of all current employees. They are the only government institution required to do this, and it has crippled their ab…

> Does anyone here not remember the Industrial Revolution? The creation of the automobile? The switch to trains for long-distance travel? The usage of water or wind to turn mills to make bread? Pick something! This is the progress of civilization.

Civilisation is not axiomatically good. This is one of my favourite critiques of civilisation: http://ranprieur.com/essays/beyondciv.html

Re: Are jobs obsolete?

#222

Post by ippisl »

protomyth wrote: post #190
ippisl wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing that would really help such scenario become an affordable reality, is seeing the cost of living rapidly decline for people living with low wages. For them , the major living expenses are housing, healthcare, food and energy, and a car(when there's no decent public transportation). Those areas mostly doesn't see big cost reductions. Some of it is because high barriers to entry, regulation, dislike of low-end…

As hated as Wal-Mart is, they have cut the cost of living for people with low wages. The after effects are up for debate.

The after effects would have happened anyway. If you look at countries that don't have a Wal-Mart , you see the same effects of imported Chinese goods, lack of unions, and "death" to main street. At least Wal-Mart passed a good chunk of the savings to people.

Re: Are jobs obsolete?

#223

Post by absconditus »

hackinthebochs wrote: post #74
dreamdu5t wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what Jello implies is wrong. People have the inherent ability to do bad things and treat eachother differently, regardless of whatever property system you have in place. Unemployment and undereducation will not be eliminated by the removal of private property. You don't have to be a property owner to be a self-absorbed dick that doesn't care about other people. If people want to make sure everybody has a livi…

You're reading that way too literally. The point is that the property owners, those with wealth, are too greedy to allow their wealth to be taxed for social services such as better schools and an improved prison system. It is this greed that comes back to bite them when those kids rob and kill them.

We spend far more on schools and prisons than we ever have.

Re: Are jobs obsolete?

#224

Post by shoham »

Spyro7 wrote: post #209

Why is this being upvoted? This article begins with a questionable premise and then descends straight into misinformation. The problems in the USPS did not begin with email. They began with a highly questionable requirement that the USPS fund a plan to fully cover the estimated future health care costs of all current employees. They are the only government institution required to do this, and it has crippled their ab…

I think that the title was just to grab your attention. I don't agree with everything in the article, especially the idealization of the Middle (or 'Dark') Ages, but the idea that what kind of work people will do 30-50 years from now, I think will be as great of a shift as from the farm to the factory, or the factory to the office (though probably not as big of a shift as the agricultural revolution!)

I think that the author is making a case that more people will work for themselves since the Renaissance, and perhaps from home since the Industrial Revolution began.

In Rushkoff's defense, he's distinguishing between work and jobs.

Re: Are jobs obsolete?

#225

Post by rorrr »

silverbax88 wrote: post #43
chailatte wrote: post #36

My theory from before: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2906769 - In 20 years, 80% of the people in will be kept alive by welfare, supplemented by their hourly job. Enough to get a small apartment, utilities, cell phone, cheap but unhealthy food, and shopping at the dollar store. And free tv/movie/music/book/sports entertainment via the internet. - 15% will be the middlemen, extracting value from the others via se…

I don't mean to sound condescending (although I'm sure I will), but your theory about the future has already happened, and collapsed, in other countries: USSR and China being two prominent recent examples.

Neither USSR nor China never had 80% of the population on welfare, not even fucking close. USSR didn't have welfare, only pensions that had to be earned.

Re: Are jobs obsolete?

#226

Post by [deleted] »

silverbax88 wrote: post #43
chailatte wrote: post #36

My theory from before: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2906769 - In 20 years, 80% of the people in will be kept alive by welfare, supplemented by their hourly job. Enough to get a small apartment, utilities, cell phone, cheap but unhealthy food, and shopping at the dollar store. And free tv/movie/music/book/sports entertainment via the internet. - 15% will be the middlemen, extracting value from the others via se…

I don't mean to sound condescending (although I'm sure I will), but your theory about the future has already happened, and collapsed, in other countries: USSR and China being two prominent recent examples.

[deleted]

Re: Are jobs obsolete?

#227

Post by tomjen3 »

hackinthebochs wrote: post #199
ChuckMcM wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally agree. My kids have gone to the public high school and a large fraction (more than 20%) of the students there could be getting an education but they choose not to . I don't know why this is, but I know of no counter argument that supports why an individual, who gets to school, has the books and supplies provided for them, and teachers willing to help them with any issues they are having, choose not to learn.…

The problem is pretty simple to identify in my opinion. These people live in a culture of anti-education. This is going to take a lot of money to counter. The cheapest way to counter it is probably to simply pay students for good grades, starting as young as possible. Create an external motivation to learn and apply yourself where there otherwise would be none.

I don't think you can counter it with money at all. Even if you pay them for good grades they are just going to find a way to cheat so they can get the money without doing the work.

Maybe a better solution would be to turn the public schools in the worst failing districts into something like the twenty-first century version of the Carlisle Indian Industrial School [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlisle_Indian_Industrial_Scho...] (without the physical abuse and with more than just training for lower level work).

Re: Are jobs obsolete?

#228

Post by mindstab »

johngalt wrote: post #111
tjstankus wrote: post #12

The opposite, libertarian answer (and the way we seem to be going right now) would be to let those who can't capitalize on the bounty simply suffer. Cut social services along with their jobs, and hope they fade into the distance. Reminds me of this quote from Jello Biafra: Some day, even the experts will figure out, that crime is not caused by rap music...or even my music, but by a power structure of self-absorbed pr…

We spend more per student than we ever have in history. Why wasn't the country in chaos when there weren't public schools at all? Teaching the kids that they are owed something merely because they have less than someone else? Seems to justify theft to me.

It's not entirely about raw spending. How about spending wisely? Right now there's a system in place that allows drunks who don't do their job to keep their seat warm while keeping out young innovators who are new to the scene. Does this seem right? Or a good system to entrust our kids and the future generation to?

Re: Are jobs obsolete?

#229

Post by Spyro7 »

duairc wrote: post #221
Spyro7 wrote: post #209

Why is this being upvoted? This article begins with a questionable premise and then descends straight into misinformation. The problems in the USPS did not begin with email. They began with a highly questionable requirement that the USPS fund a plan to fully cover the estimated future health care costs of all current employees. They are the only government institution required to do this, and it has crippled their ab…

> Does anyone here not remember the Industrial Revolution? The creation of the automobile? The switch to trains for long-distance travel? The usage of water or wind to turn mills to make bread? Pick something! This is the progress of civilization. Civilisation is not axiomatically good. This is one of my favourite critiques of civilisation: http://ranprieur.com/essays/beyondciv.html

If you enjoyed reading that, then perhaps you would enjoy reading a book that has come to occupy a treasured space on my shelf:

http://www.amazon.com/Science-Technology-World-History-Intro...

The authors provide an overview of world history through the lens of technological advancement. The chapter on physics is a bit rough, but other than that I think that the book is quite solid. It should be required reading for anyone that wants to have a good overview of the march of human civilization.

Edit: By the way, I did not downvote you, but the likely reason for the downvote is that the individual that you link to does not seem to have the necessary qualifications to provide a strong critique of civilization.

Remember, just because someone writes about a topic does not mean that they are an authority on this topic.

Re: Are jobs obsolete?

#230

Post by ovi256 »

jbooth wrote: post #156
bradly wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They're going to end it soon. That isn't exactly true. The Postmaster General has been trying to get Saturday delivery canceled for a while now, but congress has not been willing to let it happen.

So, the original contention was that Socialistobama would never, ever, ever consider reduction of service. The truth is that his appointee is actively pursuing it. Regardless of whether Congress (ironically, mostly rural district republicans in congress) are impeding him as usual.

>Socialistobama

That label and the level of discourse it represents are not welcome here. Be civil.

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