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Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

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Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#221

Post by MilaM »

tablespoon wrote: post #193

I don't like it. Having a physical object the embodies your phone's identity is a lot easier to deal with in many ways than an ethereal emulation of said object. For instance, if I'm traveling I can just buy a SIM card at a kiosk and pop it in, even if I can only communicate through little more than pointing and grunting. Another example: I got a new phone recently, but since all my stuff was still on my old phone, a…

For a lot of less technically inclined folks I think eSIMs would introduce a lot of complexity. Swapping a SIM card is rather straight forward, and I know that for example my mother could easily do it by herself and has done so in the past. I don't think she would be able to swap an eSIM using the customer portal of her operator if it was necessary. I could see this causing a lot of headache for customer support or nearby relatives ;)

Personally, I would also prefer to have the SIM-tray as a backup and for travel. Most prepaid plans in Europe still don't support eSIMs.

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#222

Post by Nbox9 »

tablespoon wrote: post #193

I don't like it. Having a physical object the embodies your phone's identity is a lot easier to deal with in many ways than an ethereal emulation of said object. For instance, if I'm traveling I can just buy a SIM card at a kiosk and pop it in, even if I can only communicate through little more than pointing and grunting. Another example: I got a new phone recently, but since all my stuff was still on my old phone, a…

> Having a physical object the embodies your phone's identity

A SIM is not a embodiment of an iPhone’s identity. Maybe it was in the 90s, but today it’s so much more. The SIM is more like your iPhone’s credentials for accessing one network. You can change SIMs, change your access token for one network, but you are making no bigger impact on your phone’s “identity” than if you were to change Wi-Fi networks.

List of Identity related things that change when you change your SIM

  * Network Access Layer data associated with the cellular  networks

  * Phone Number
List of Identity relates things that do not change when changing your SIM

  * All data stored on the phone (messages, photos, apps)

  * Two Factor Authentication apps like Duo, PingID, Authy

  * ICloud Accounts

  * Stored passwords

  * Login tokens for various apps like email, social media, etc

  * Browser Cookies

  * Applet Wallet Data

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#224

Post by tablespoon »

lajamerr wrote: post #208
tablespoon wrote: post #193

I don't like it. Having a physical object the embodies your phone's identity is a lot easier to deal with in many ways than an ethereal emulation of said object. For instance, if I'm traveling I can just buy a SIM card at a kiosk and pop it in, even if I can only communicate through little more than pointing and grunting. Another example: I got a new phone recently, but since all my stuff was still on my old phone, a…

I imagine a world where you just a bring a phone anywhere and it you open your network settings, go to your cellular data menu, and then automatically it detects the mobile network providers that support the towers it can see. Then you tap on the one you want, select the package you want, pay for it from that menu and then bam you are connected. All without having an existing Wi-Fi or Cellular data plan. There needs…

> Then you tap on the one you want, select the package you want, pay for it from that menu and then bam you are connected.

And what if those menus are in some foreign language I don't understand? And how would that work with cash? I'd have to fork over my credit card (assuming that's even an acceptable form of payment) and may end up with a recurring charge for a cell plan in a country I'll visit for a week.

Visions like yours are nice, but my money is what we'll actually get is a far crappier, buggier version.

One impossible-to-replace benefit of physical objects is that you can use physical control to place limits on them. Pay with cash, no recurring changes, move the card, move the service. Theoretically you could do that in software, but practically you won't because those are expensive features that almost always get cut.

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#225

Post by ndespres »

lajamerr wrote: post #208
tablespoon wrote: post #193

I don't like it. Having a physical object the embodies your phone's identity is a lot easier to deal with in many ways than an ethereal emulation of said object. For instance, if I'm traveling I can just buy a SIM card at a kiosk and pop it in, even if I can only communicate through little more than pointing and grunting. Another example: I got a new phone recently, but since all my stuff was still on my old phone, a…

I imagine a world where you just a bring a phone anywhere and it you open your network settings, go to your cellular data menu, and then automatically it detects the mobile network providers that support the towers it can see. Then you tap on the one you want, select the package you want, pay for it from that menu and then bam you are connected. All without having an existing Wi-Fi or Cellular data plan. There needs…

That was exactly my experience traveling from USA to Europe. My iPhone didn't support global bands and wouldn't work with a local SIM. My iPad, however, came with the Apple SIM and let me purchase a local data plan in 2 different countries through a convenient menu that came up automatically. I'm sure there's a telecom company requirement for why this capability doesn't seem to work in a regular phone.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_SIM

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#226

Post by tablespoon »

Nbox9 wrote: post #222
tablespoon wrote: post #193

I don't like it. Having a physical object the embodies your phone's identity is a lot easier to deal with in many ways than an ethereal emulation of said object. For instance, if I'm traveling I can just buy a SIM card at a kiosk and pop it in, even if I can only communicate through little more than pointing and grunting. Another example: I got a new phone recently, but since all my stuff was still on my old phone, a…

> Having a physical object the embodies your phone's identity A SIM is not a embodiment of an iPhone’s identity. Maybe it was in the 90s, but today it’s so much more. The SIM is more like your iPhone’s credentials for accessing one network. You can change SIMs, change your access token for one network, but you are making no bigger impact on your phone’s “identity” than if you were to change Wi-Fi networks. List of Id…

>> Having a physical object the embodies your phone's identity

> The SIM is more like your iPhone’s credentials for accessing one network.

That's what I meant. Anyone with any familiarity with SIM cards knows it's no personality chip that brings everything over with it, and if it were such a thing it would probably be pretty annoying.

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#227

Post by xwolfi »

jwr wrote: post #66

I am very worried about this. While I love (and sometimes use) eSIMs, the physical SIM has a huge advantage in that it gives me freedom. It's the revolution that GSM brought: just take your SIM and move it to a different phone. No permission required. Arguably we've become slaves to ecosystems of either Apple or Google at this point, as pretty much nobody uses a phone as "just a phone", you need to have an account wi…

Get a Huawei !! It's actually liberating: nothing Google made works on those, so you're forcefully put on a Google diet, it's not Apple, Huawei stuff are only really good if you'in China: you're stuck with F-Droid and the Aurora Store, surviving as you can without ANY integrated ecosystem.

It seems silly but I never felt so free, esp after I turned on an all-blocking firewall that only whitelist the apps I want, when I want.

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#228

Post by feupan »

mschuster91 wrote: post #145
hulitu wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Finaly OTA. What can go wrong when everybody can program your SIM remotely ?

> What can go wrong when everybody can program your SIM remotely? That's bollocks. An eSIM module is exactly the same chip as in a normal SIM card - right down to the electric specifications and communication protocols, so you can hook up a provisioned eSIM module to a phone or a SIM card to a device using an eSIM chip and it will Just Work (tm). The only difference is that the eSIM module is allowing the baseband ch…

I think that the risk is more about stealing the number more than reprogramming it. If I can move my eSIM to a new phone, so can an attacker.

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#229

Post by timcederman »

tablespoon wrote: post #193

I don't like it. Having a physical object the embodies your phone's identity is a lot easier to deal with in many ways than an ethereal emulation of said object. For instance, if I'm traveling I can just buy a SIM card at a kiosk and pop it in, even if I can only communicate through little more than pointing and grunting. Another example: I got a new phone recently, but since all my stuff was still on my old phone, a…

I don't understand the comments here at all. Advocating for a far less convenient physical solution over a digital solution - on HN? Has anyone here actually dealt with eSIMs vs regular SIMs? I've been using phones since SIM cards were the size of a credit card, and eSIMs are amazing in every way compared to physical SIMs. What am I missing?

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#230

Post by sersi »

arthur_sav wrote: post #140
jwr wrote: post #66

I am very worried about this. While I love (and sometimes use) eSIMs, the physical SIM has a huge advantage in that it gives me freedom. It's the revolution that GSM brought: just take your SIM and move it to a different phone. No permission required. Arguably we've become slaves to ecosystems of either Apple or Google at this point, as pretty much nobody uses a phone as "just a phone", you need to have an account wi…

Realistically when was the last time you switched your SIM card? I only change it when i change phones.

I have 4 SIM cards from 4 different countries that I need to keep. Mostly because I have bank accounts in those countries and banks either dislike foreign mobile phone numbers or accept them but then are unable to send any 2fa tokens quickly enough to those foreign phone numbers for the 2fa tokens to still be valid.

So, I actually wish I had a quadruple sim phone, as it is I have two dual sim phones to handle this (with one that mostly stays at home).

The viewpoint of never needing to change sim cards is very US centric (or better said, affluent people in a lot of other countries tend to need multiple SIM cards).

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