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How to Think: The Skill You’ve Never Been Taught

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Re: How to Think: The Skill You’ve Never Been Taught

#81

Post by padastra »

codingdave wrote: post #67

> Schools don’t teach you a method of thinking. Colleges do. At least, liberal arts colleges do. There is definitely a financial problem with the cost of college, I don't want to diminish that fact. Our higher educational system needs a refactor for a plethora of valid reasons... But how to think - how to deconstruct, compare, contrast, and reconstruct into something new - this is exactly the basis for traditional li…

I am not aware of any data that colleges--liberal arts or otherwise--teach much in terms of critical thinking. Rather their value seems to derive primarily from their ability to select talented students and provide them with a network of similarly talented peers. That and they get "credit" for the learnings of students as they age from 18 - 22/26, when that's a pretty ripe time for maturing thought with or without the classroom.

Moreover, it's clear that most colleges agree with my viewpoint. For example, if Harvard's product was an amazing curriculum, they could expand that to many, many more students than their current class size and charge for it (instead, their actions are rational when their product is exclusivity and high-talent networks).

Re: How to Think: The Skill You’ve Never Been Taught

#82

Post by CactusOnFire »

padastra wrote: post #81
codingdave wrote: post #67

> Schools don’t teach you a method of thinking. Colleges do. At least, liberal arts colleges do. There is definitely a financial problem with the cost of college, I don't want to diminish that fact. Our higher educational system needs a refactor for a plethora of valid reasons... But how to think - how to deconstruct, compare, contrast, and reconstruct into something new - this is exactly the basis for traditional li…

I am not aware of any data that colleges--liberal arts or otherwise--teach much in terms of critical thinking. Rather their value seems to derive primarily from their ability to select talented students and provide them with a network of similarly talented peers. That and they get "credit" for the learnings of students as they age from 18 - 22/26, when that's a pretty ripe time for maturing thought with or without th…

My BA degree required taking a class called 'Critical Thinking' which focused on formal logic.

I do agree with the sentiment, and that schools need a massive overhaul, but I figured that I should provide my 1 data point to the discussion.

Re: How to Think: The Skill You’ve Never Been Taught

#83

Post by bnralt »

codingdave wrote: post #67

> Schools don’t teach you a method of thinking. Colleges do. At least, liberal arts colleges do. There is definitely a financial problem with the cost of college, I don't want to diminish that fact. Our higher educational system needs a refactor for a plethora of valid reasons... But how to think - how to deconstruct, compare, contrast, and reconstruct into something new - this is exactly the basis for traditional li…

> Colleges do. At least, liberal arts colleges do.

Where's the evidence that they do? And how would we determine which schools/teachers/courses do this effectively, and which don't?

It's not unusual that people who are taught to think less critically believe that they are thinking more critically (conspiracy theorists are a good example of this, as are most ideologues). So let's consider another possibility - perhaps colleges teach students to think less critically, but to believe that they are thinking more critically. It's worth at least considering whether or not this is the case, instead of simply assuming it's not.

I often see a lot of comments assuming that colleges teach critical thinking, but I rarely see much critical thinking applied to that assumption.

Re: How to Think: The Skill You’ve Never Been Taught

#84

Post by trabant00 »

codingdave wrote: post #67

> Schools don’t teach you a method of thinking. Colleges do. At least, liberal arts colleges do. There is definitely a financial problem with the cost of college, I don't want to diminish that fact. Our higher educational system needs a refactor for a plethora of valid reasons... But how to think - how to deconstruct, compare, contrast, and reconstruct into something new - this is exactly the basis for traditional li…

> how to think - how to deconstruct, compare, contrast, and reconstruct

That is not "how to think" in my opinion. That is how to split hairs. And the results of such education - or better said lack of results - are quite telling.

If we only talk about formal education math does a way better job of teaching you how to think.

Re: How to Think: The Skill You’ve Never Been Taught

#85

Post by JackFr »

padastra wrote: post #81
codingdave wrote: post #67

> Schools don’t teach you a method of thinking. Colleges do. At least, liberal arts colleges do. There is definitely a financial problem with the cost of college, I don't want to diminish that fact. Our higher educational system needs a refactor for a plethora of valid reasons... But how to think - how to deconstruct, compare, contrast, and reconstruct into something new - this is exactly the basis for traditional li…

I am not aware of any data that colleges--liberal arts or otherwise--teach much in terms of critical thinking. Rather their value seems to derive primarily from their ability to select talented students and provide them with a network of similarly talented peers. That and they get "credit" for the learnings of students as they age from 18 - 22/26, when that's a pretty ripe time for maturing thought with or without th…

Though I have a degree in math, my undergraduate experiance was at a liberal arts college. Outside of my major I was required to take at least 2 history classes, 2 philosphy classes, 2 theology classes, 2 lietrature classes, 2 social science classes and a foreign language (modern or classical) to the intermediate level. I was a very rich and rewarding experience, and I firmy believe every bit of it makes me a better software developer and human being.

That being said, there was no explicit 'critical thinking' aspect to it, rather one learned the importance of reading and writing. If we define 'critical thinking' as the ability to bith understand a subtle argument and to make one, it was the reading and writing that did that.

Re: How to Think: The Skill You’ve Never Been Taught

#86

Post by andi999 »

bnralt wrote: post #83
codingdave wrote: post #67

> Schools don’t teach you a method of thinking. Colleges do. At least, liberal arts colleges do. There is definitely a financial problem with the cost of college, I don't want to diminish that fact. Our higher educational system needs a refactor for a plethora of valid reasons... But how to think - how to deconstruct, compare, contrast, and reconstruct into something new - this is exactly the basis for traditional li…

> Colleges do. At least, liberal arts colleges do. Where's the evidence that they do? And how would we determine which schools/teachers/courses do this effectively, and which don't? It's not unusual that people who are taught to think less critically believe that they are thinking more critically (conspiracy theorists are a good example of this, as are most ideologues). So let's consider another possibility - perhaps…

Probably part of it is that (at least I think so) critical thinking is not a good word for the process. It might be better called evidence based analysis or fact based thinking.

Re: How to Think: The Skill You’ve Never Been Taught

#87

Post by hellisothers »

CactusOnFire wrote: post #82
padastra wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not aware of any data that colleges--liberal arts or otherwise--teach much in terms of critical thinking. Rather their value seems to derive primarily from their ability to select talented students and provide them with a network of similarly talented peers. That and they get "credit" for the learnings of students as they age from 18 - 22/26, when that's a pretty ripe time for maturing thought with or without th…

My BA degree required taking a class called 'Critical Thinking' which focused on formal logic. I do agree with the sentiment, and that schools need a massive overhaul, but I figured that I should provide my 1 data point to the discussion.

Similarly my BA required spending the entire senior year writing a thesis paper requiring much slowing down, critical thinking and rethinking. I agree with OP’s assertion but it probably doesn’t apply to every college.

Re: How to Think: The Skill You’ve Never Been Taught

#88

Post by BitwiseFool »

codingdave wrote: post #67

> Schools don’t teach you a method of thinking. Colleges do. At least, liberal arts colleges do. There is definitely a financial problem with the cost of college, I don't want to diminish that fact. Our higher educational system needs a refactor for a plethora of valid reasons... But how to think - how to deconstruct, compare, contrast, and reconstruct into something new - this is exactly the basis for traditional li…

>"Colleges do. At least, liberal arts colleges do."

I'm not convinced this is actually true, having been through a Liberal Arts education myself. During my orientation the professors would proudly extol the virtues of University and how we were about to embark on a four year journey that would make us into true critical thinkers, members of a society able appreciate the world by exposing us to as many disparate subjects as possible.

In practice, though, there were a set of GenEd courses I had to fulfill in order to graduate. Of course the GenEd courses touted themselves as critical thinking crucibles but I just found them to be mere extensions of what I had been learning in High School. Rhetoric 101 and 102 wasn't about persuasion, it was about reading a common book and writing an essay about it's themes - exactly the kind of thing I had been doing since middle school. Essays were just essays. There was nothing particularly new or more difficult about the lessons designed to teach us critical thinking.

Edit: The essence of what I am getting at is twofold. One, critical thinking IS being taught in schools already. I suspect "we don't teach kids critical thinking" is a reflexive go-to trope to explain why so many people seem irrational. But teaching these concepts is not a new revelation and teachers have been doing so for decades, if not generations. Even in antiquity people tried to teach about the difference between Ethos, Pathos, and Logos.

Two, "critical thinking" in College/University Liberal Arts curricula is not radically different from the methods used in high school. Namely, common assignments and asking the students to elaborate on their views and defend them. There is no secret method to producing critical thinkers that is accessible through college education. I assert it is merely more of the same.

Re: How to Think: The Skill You’ve Never Been Taught

#89

Post by codingdave »

trabant00 wrote: post #84
codingdave wrote: post #67

> Schools don’t teach you a method of thinking. Colleges do. At least, liberal arts colleges do. There is definitely a financial problem with the cost of college, I don't want to diminish that fact. Our higher educational system needs a refactor for a plethora of valid reasons... But how to think - how to deconstruct, compare, contrast, and reconstruct into something new - this is exactly the basis for traditional li…

> how to think - how to deconstruct, compare, contrast, and reconstruct That is not "how to think" in my opinion. That is how to split hairs. And the results of such education - or better said lack of results - are quite telling. If we only talk about formal education math does a way better job of teaching you how to think.

> That is how to split hairs.

That was a common topic of discussion when in the middle of the process, too - was this actually helping us? We (my classmates and I) always said that the worst education ever is half of a liberal arts education, because you learned how to rip everything apart but did not learn how to constructively put it back together. You have to complete the cycle, not just tear things down.

Re: How to Think: The Skill You’ve Never Been Taught

#90

Post by wildermuthn »

keiferski wrote: post #33
tgv wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Formal logic isn't special in helping you think. It doesn't offer any tool that you can use in real life. You might just as well study chess or engine design deeply. It's the studying and problem solving that trains thinking.

I found that studying symbolic logic, especially in a philosophical (language-based) context, helped me clarify my thinking. In other words, it helped me differentiate between concepts, trace arguments, and determine if something actually made sense. It’s not so much about solving problems, more about “organizing” the way you think.

Agreed. Even if all you learn is the difference between validity and truth, this is an especially worthwhile difference to hammer into your brain. A lot of poor thinking comes not from invalid reasoning, but from hidden assumptions that are untrue. Conversely, the identification of contradiction is a skill that can be practiced with formal logic, and most invalid and convoluted arguments are easiest to unravel by finding those contradictions.
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