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Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

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Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#191

Post by newsbinator »

Nextgrid wrote: post #144
thirdlamp wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but it doesn't make sense to allow multiple devices per number anyway Why not? This is a useful behavior that is currently emulated by forwarding calls to laptops and tablets with the same account when the devices are on the same Wi-Fi. You could get rid of the Wi-Fi requirement if those devices all simply had an eSIM with the same number.

Number assignment is handled at the network level. I have the exact functionality you speak of (single number to multiple devices) on my company's good old physical SIMs. Phones & SIMs don't even know nor care about their own number. The SIM has a field for that but in fact it's often left empty (iOS devices discover their own number by texting a known Apple number and getting the response via the Internet, they'll t…

> iOS devices discover their own number by texting a known Apple number and getting the response via the Internet, they'll then populate this field out of courtesy but it's not necessary for functionality

TIL! Is that why in some countries and some SIM cards my iPhone can automatically report its own phone number (when I look at my own profile under 'Contacts') and in some countries it doesn't do that?

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#192

Post by vmception »

The current and last several iphones have been dual sim, one physical and one eSim.

I'm wondering if they keep an eSIM-only model as having two eSIMs.

The dual sim implementation is very weird, like its clear they only imagine that someone is popping in a different SIM for travel, as opposed to just having two numbers they use all the time like I do. Even most of the support is catered to travellers with a temporary second physical sim.

The OS implementation is odd, but has gotten better. Only FaceTime can't differentiate.

But I really wish Apple would do more contact management, even with permissions. Should be a way to silo certain contacts. Not every app I share contacts with should know every contact.

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#193

Post by tablespoon »

I don't like it. Having a physical object the embodies your phone's identity is a lot easier to deal with in many ways than an ethereal emulation of said object. For instance, if I'm traveling I can just buy a SIM card at a kiosk and pop it in, even if I can only communicate through little more than pointing and grunting. Another example: I got a new phone recently, but since all my stuff was still on my old phone, after the new phone was activated I told the clerk to put the new SIM back into the old phone. It was painless and literally took a minute. I'm sure dicking around with eSIMs would have taken far longer, and I'd have spend even more time dicking around to transfer things back.

> Apple's former design chief Jony Ive once envisioned the iPhone as becoming a "single slab of glass," and the SIM card slot's removal would be another step towards a seamless design...

I really do hate purist visions like that.

> Taking out the slot would also free up some valuable internal space in the iPhone — every bit counts.

And my money is that they'll use whatever volume they free up to mindlessly make the phone thinner.

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#194

Post by jtbayly »

Nextgrid wrote: post #126
jtbayly wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are confused. SIM cards are not a second factor. SIM swaps are proof of this.

SIM is the second factor when it comes to proving that this device with this physical SIM is indeed accessing the network. Fraudulent SIM swaps are attacking a different layer of the system, they are social-engineering underpaid idiots to associate a new SIM with a given account & number. You could in theory social-engineer a bank to reissue someone's payment card and somehow intercept it in the post or steal it from…

But Esim already exists. Nobody needs to steal your SIM card to start using your phone number.

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#195

Post by PebblesHD »

scoopertrooper wrote: post #178
PebblesHD wrote: post #158

I (before COVID…) travel somewhat regularly and have a collection of SIM cards from my most frequently travelled destinations making just arriving and going about my life a nice straightforward process. I haven’t seen anything to indicate eSIMs have anything close to this experience and I feel like losing the option to do so for some perceived modernness is a bit disappointing.

So your argument against eSIMs is that it'd interfere with your niche hobby of international sim card collecting?

In order to effectively do business in these countries, being able to make phone calls and have a predictable phone number while in country is incredibly useful, this is what I’m referring to. I guess the result is a collection of sorts, but these things get used regularly, and the ability to swap and go on my own schedule is what I’d like to see from eSIMs before I lose the ability otherwise.

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#196

Post by yakshaving_jgt »

arthur_sav wrote: post #140
jwr wrote: post #66

I am very worried about this. While I love (and sometimes use) eSIMs, the physical SIM has a huge advantage in that it gives me freedom. It's the revolution that GSM brought: just take your SIM and move it to a different phone. No permission required. Arguably we've become slaves to ecosystems of either Apple or Google at this point, as pretty much nobody uses a phone as "just a phone", you need to have an account wi…

Realistically when was the last time you switched your SIM card? I only change it when i change phones.

I've changed SIM cards twice in the past week. I travel all the time.

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#197

Post by Ensorceled »

curiousgal wrote: post #127
keraf wrote: post #57

Hopefully by removing the SIM tray, they have now enough space to put the headphone jack back. (bit of sarcasm but I really miss headphone jacks in mobile phones)

I don't understand this sentiment, instead of pleading with a phone manufacturer to implement certain features why not put your money where your mouth is and, you know, buy any of the pleothra of phones out there that do have a headphone jack.

Yes, because the ONLY feature I take into account when buying a new device that I carry in my pocket literally every day of my life is how good the headphone jack is.

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#198

Post by ksec »

Nextgrid wrote: post #126
jtbayly wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are confused. SIM cards are not a second factor. SIM swaps are proof of this.

SIM is the second factor when it comes to proving that this device with this physical SIM is indeed accessing the network. Fraudulent SIM swaps are attacking a different layer of the system, they are social-engineering underpaid idiots to associate a new SIM with a given account & number. You could in theory social-engineer a bank to reissue someone's payment card and somehow intercept it in the post or steal it from…

And from my understanding, these social engineering and sim swap problems are mostly ( if not all ) US specific. I have never heard anything near the order of magnitude of US sim swap from any other country. Most countries have Personal ID that are required and issued by government as verification. But even places like UK will require address and Driving License / Passport proof along with security questions.

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#199

Post by Nextgrid »

aboringusername wrote: post #27

Can anyone discuss the privacy implications here please? I assume to use eSim you'll be required to have a working internet connection - there are still many dark spots in the world. What data does eSim need? Can anyone outline the data structures being sent from my device? It's still possible to access the network pesudo-anonomously with a physical sim, I can only assume a "selfie to activate eSim" is going to happe…

You'll need to have a connection once when you provision the eSIM. There may be some way in the spec for the device to use the network itself for that connection, similarly to how you can make emergency calls without a SIM card.

But even if you don't have a connection now and try to provision it, I'd assume the phone would just cache the SM-DP code for later provisioning in the background when a connection is available.

Privacy-wise, there is no difference. It gives the carriers more opportunities to be assholes and justify some new hostile requirements due to the switch to eSIM, but once an eSIM is provisioned it behaves just like a physical SIM.

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#200

Post by CubsFan1060 »

PebblesHD wrote: post #195
scoopertrooper wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So your argument against eSIMs is that it'd interfere with your niche hobby of international sim card collecting?

In order to effectively do business in these countries, being able to make phone calls and have a predictable phone number while in country is incredibly useful, this is what I’m referring to. I guess the result is a collection of sorts, but these things get used regularly, and the ability to swap and go on my own schedule is what I’d like to see from eSIMs before I lose the ability otherwise.

How does this work for you with eSims now? On a recent trip I had eSims from 3 countries where I did just this (data only, because I didn't need a phone number). I just turned them off and on at will.
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