Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

macrumors.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 531 posts

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#131

Post by mrtksn »

junon wrote: post #113
mrtksn wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I share your concerns but at the same time I think, why would we even need a SIM? Isn't it simply a device for accessing account on someones system? We don't have SIMs for ADSL or Fiber internet? We don't have SIMs for Reddit ot Twitter? Why would we have SIMs accessing GSM networks? There's no fundamental reason why we simply don't sign in into these networks like signing in to HN. Surely, it adds a layer of anonymi…

Because SIMs require the physical card. You cannot forge a SIM without the SIM itself. There's a physical second factor. Usernames and passwords get leaked all the time, and since Reddit et al are meant to be accessed by multiple devices, device-locking them would be antithetical and anti-consumer. A phone service is implicitly device-locked (well, doesn't have to be, but it doesn't make sense to allow multiple devic…

SIM cards are famously the weak link in the 2FA. They have all kind of security issues as they are computers themselves.

The way forward is to get rid of the SIM and access those carrier networks through credentials, ideally I would love to see it as a cryptographic receipt that you get from your payment provider and pass it to the the carrier as a proof of right for account and usage of their networks.

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#132

Post by Invictus0 »

hdjjhhvvhga wrote: post #122
Invictus0 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The T480 is 30% thicker than the new Macbook pros. I just got the 14" macbook pro and personally I think it's already a bit beefy.

A serious question: what is the advantage of thinness for you, personally? I have several laptops and I'm on the move all the time. The only disadvantage of thicker ones for me is weight - but it's negligible, even when I'm cycling and my laptop is in my backpack (or, sometimes, laptop bag). Weight aside, the thinness itself has zero advantage for me. I'd much rather have all the functionality removed at the cost of…

It's aesthetics/psychological. Weight is also important to me because I travel and the thinness affects my perception of the weight. It's a bit strange that the new Pro feels thicker than my old laptop, the 2015 Macbook Pro, despite actually being thinner. It's because it doesn't have the taper that the old laptop has. Take a look:

Old: https://support.apple.com/library/APPLE/APPLECARE_ALLGEOS/SP...

New: https://awsimages.detik.net.id/community/media/visual/2021/1...

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#133

Post by bduerst »

curiousgal wrote: post #127
keraf wrote: post #57

Hopefully by removing the SIM tray, they have now enough space to put the headphone jack back. (bit of sarcasm but I really miss headphone jacks in mobile phones)

I don't understand this sentiment, instead of pleading with a phone manufacturer to implement certain features why not put your money where your mouth is and, you know, buy any of the pleothra of phones out there that do have a headphone jack.

It's just tongue-in-cheek banter, don't take it too literally. Besides, Apple devices make a sizeable portion of the market and have 'ecosystem' buy-in features that many other phones (w or w/o h jacks) don't have.

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#134

Post by thirdlamp »

junon wrote: post #113
mrtksn wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I share your concerns but at the same time I think, why would we even need a SIM? Isn't it simply a device for accessing account on someones system? We don't have SIMs for ADSL or Fiber internet? We don't have SIMs for Reddit ot Twitter? Why would we have SIMs accessing GSM networks? There's no fundamental reason why we simply don't sign in into these networks like signing in to HN. Surely, it adds a layer of anonymi…

Because SIMs require the physical card. You cannot forge a SIM without the SIM itself. There's a physical second factor. Usernames and passwords get leaked all the time, and since Reddit et al are meant to be accessed by multiple devices, device-locking them would be antithetical and anti-consumer. A phone service is implicitly device-locked (well, doesn't have to be, but it doesn't make sense to allow multiple devic…

> but it doesn't make sense to allow multiple devices per number anyway

Why not? This is a useful behavior that is currently emulated by forwarding calls to laptops and tablets with the same account when the devices are on the same Wi-Fi. You could get rid of the Wi-Fi requirement if those devices all simply had an eSIM with the same number.

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#135

Post by pentae »

rosndo wrote: post #89
pentae wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everywhere, as others in this thread have mentioned. As a frequent traveler I'll be probably holding onto the last physical sim iPhone for many years until everywhere I travel to has it all ironed out.

As a frequent traveler I can’t imagine going back to physical SIMs, now I can carry all my data plans on my phone and don’t have to waste time looking for a place to buy a prepaid plan. There are a ton of websites where you can immediately get esims for almost every country, why bother with physical sims?

In some places the e-sim plans are inflated and poorer value compared to the deals on physical sim cards sold. For example the unlimited data plans might be only available by sim rather than purchasing data packs

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#136

Post by Nextgrid »

mrtksn wrote: post #131
junon wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because SIMs require the physical card. You cannot forge a SIM without the SIM itself. There's a physical second factor. Usernames and passwords get leaked all the time, and since Reddit et al are meant to be accessed by multiple devices, device-locking them would be antithetical and anti-consumer. A phone service is implicitly device-locked (well, doesn't have to be, but it doesn't make sense to allow multiple devic…

SIM cards are famously the weak link in the 2FA. They have all kind of security issues as they are computers themselves. The way forward is to get rid of the SIM and access those carrier networks through credentials, ideally I would love to see it as a cryptographic receipt that you get from your payment provider and pass it to the the carrier as a proof of right for account and usage of their networks.

SMS-based 2FA's weakness is not due to SIM cards. It's due to carriers being shit.

SMS-based 2FA is not exploited by breaking any cryptography or exploiting some software vulnerability. It's by "asking nicely" the carrier's customer support idiots to associate a new SIM to the target account & number.

Replacing the SIM with username/password wouldn't do anything - instead of the attackers having to associate a new physical SIM they'll just associate a new set of credentials.

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#137

Post by gog »

lifty wrote: post #3

Is there a good reason why mobile phones still have SIM cards, besides the historical reasons?

Couple of years ago I went to Africa, bought two local SIM cards from children on the road while sitting in a car, they had to take a picture of my passport with their mobile phone and activate the cards, but it worked. Having esim being sold like that would probably not be possible.

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#138

Post by mschuster91 »

jwr wrote: post #66

I am very worried about this. While I love (and sometimes use) eSIMs, the physical SIM has a huge advantage in that it gives me freedom. It's the revolution that GSM brought: just take your SIM and move it to a different phone. No permission required. Arguably we've become slaves to ecosystems of either Apple or Google at this point, as pretty much nobody uses a phone as "just a phone", you need to have an account wi…

> It's the revolution that GSM brought: just take your SIM and move it to a different phone. No permission required.

In virtually all countries sans a couple of dictatorships and other authoritarian regimes, you have many network providers to choose to buy an eSIM from - the US alone has 109 MVNOs plus the five network providers per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_mobile_v.... You also have the right to have your phone number ported.

When you want to switch your phone and your provider does not allow you to request a new eSIM profile, you can switch both the phone and the provider.

There are many things to criticize about modern phone markets - the lack of a right to root your phone and the lack of portability between app stores (not just purchases, but also stuff like game progress!) are the most important ones - but the switch to eSIM is not a problem at all.

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#139

Post by dilyevsky »

JohnTHaller wrote: post #71

I think we'll see a big rise in phishing attacks if this comes to pass. Unlike physical SIMs where you can move them about yourself, you often have to call support to change an eSIM. So, mobile companies are going to have to make it even easier to change eSIMs. And it's not like mobile providers are known for security. T-Mobile gave up my personal details to the world along with 50 million others a few months back.

It really makes no difference one can trick the support to deactivate your physical sim and move the number to theirs

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#140

Post by arthur_sav »

jwr wrote: post #66

I am very worried about this. While I love (and sometimes use) eSIMs, the physical SIM has a huge advantage in that it gives me freedom. It's the revolution that GSM brought: just take your SIM and move it to a different phone. No permission required. Arguably we've become slaves to ecosystems of either Apple or Google at this point, as pretty much nobody uses a phone as "just a phone", you need to have an account wi…

Realistically when was the last time you switched your SIM card? I only change it when i change phones.
Post reply on HN