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I made my first web0 website today. It's so cool it just works

elliott.computer

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Re: I made my first web0 website today. It's so cool it just works

#241

Post by xwolfi »

necovek wrote: post #232
xwolfi wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We were never close to this. You have to accept we need nurses, hairdressers and farmers and these people cant be expected to do the work required to maintain a critical email server on top of everything else they have to do. Look I heard in the US some people even have several jobs, I suppose by end of your second or third shift of the day, the last thing you want to do is a log4j patch type upgrade... doubly so whe…

Does that not make it obvious that the problem is in the distribution of software? I run my own server and I don't want to care if any of the installed apps I run depend on log4j somewhere in the chain. I so far trust my Ubuntu LTS package archive to give me sufficient security updates for stuff I install from main, and this is the reason I avoid non-main software, but even Ubuntu is moving away from this model to sn…

Yes but why Ubuntu LTS, gmail is even better at it: you dont even need to learn what a package is and you can focus on breaking your back 16 hours a day to pay your credit card debts.

You overestimate the time available to people and that's why google can shove its ads down our throats in exchange for a huge time gain for everyone. Fix that first, then tell people to update their mail daemon.

Re: I made my first web0 website today. It's so cool it just works

#243

Post by debaserab2 »

necovek wrote: post #229
ZephyrBlu wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want everything to be decentralized it will always be a pain in the ass and have way more friction compared to a centralized alternative even if it's pretty easy in absolute terms. The problem is psychological, not technical.

You could say the same thing about laundry. While US has a plethora of laundromats and buildings get dedicated laundry rooms, in Europe (at least), even the tiniest apartments in apartment buildings have their own washing machine. While there is some overhead (if it breaks, you have to find someone to fix it; you need to clean that filter...), people have happily accepted the decentralization since the benefits outwe…

In this case "decentralization" means drastically less overhead in terms of simply taking your dirty clothes to the other room instead of dealing with the hassle of traveling somewhere with it and potentially paying money per load and/or dealing with other tenants that might be using all the machines.

People in the US don't use communal laundry because they want to, they use it because they (most likely) have to because they are in a large urban center or can't afford the appliance.

This is basically the reverse of the internet centralization/decentralization example, where centralized services on the internet are much easier to use than their decentralized counterparts.

Re: I made my first web0 website today. It's so cool it just works

#244

Post by necovek »

xwolfi wrote: post #241
necovek wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does that not make it obvious that the problem is in the distribution of software? I run my own server and I don't want to care if any of the installed apps I run depend on log4j somewhere in the chain. I so far trust my Ubuntu LTS package archive to give me sufficient security updates for stuff I install from main, and this is the reason I avoid non-main software, but even Ubuntu is moving away from this model to sn…

Yes but why Ubuntu LTS, gmail is even better at it: you dont even need to learn what a package is and you can focus on breaking your back 16 hours a day to pay your credit card debts. You overestimate the time available to people and that's why google can shove its ads down our throats in exchange for a huge time gain for everyone. Fix that first, then tell people to update their mail daemon.

That's quite a difference: gmail does not provide strictly security updates, but might change the entire UI/UX on their whim (or get cancelled: Google has infamously done that a lot).

But, I am not saying that even LTS approach is sufficient, but that we could work on improving it so it's trivial for anyone to do (people using laundromats probably have no idea what a "filter" is in a washer either: that's not a barrier for people to get one, though).

Re: I made my first web0 website today. It's so cool it just works

#245

Post by necovek »

ZephyrBlu wrote: post #236
necovek wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could say the same thing about laundry. While US has a plethora of laundromats and buildings get dedicated laundry rooms, in Europe (at least), even the tiniest apartments in apartment buildings have their own washing machine. While there is some overhead (if it breaks, you have to find someone to fix it; you need to clean that filter...), people have happily accepted the decentralization since the benefits outwe…

The fact you compare this to laundry means you don't really understand the problem. Adding any sort of friction to an onboarding flow severely reduces conversion. The tech and it's benefits don't mean anything if there is too much friction before the user realizes the benefits, and it doesn't take much friction to dissuade people. See these tweets from a founder who built a social app startup and sold it to Facebook…

Uhm, but that's exactly what I am saying. We need to get the onboarding flow simpler for people to buy into decentralized solutions, and there are technical hurdles in achieving it, but they are not insurmountable: it's just that nobody is working on them.

I don't see why any of that should be impossible, it's just that most of decentralized stuff is free software that was never focused on the starting-up flow and UX.

Re: I made my first web0 website today. It's so cool it just works

#246

Post by [deleted] »

debaserab2 wrote: post #243
necovek wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could say the same thing about laundry. While US has a plethora of laundromats and buildings get dedicated laundry rooms, in Europe (at least), even the tiniest apartments in apartment buildings have their own washing machine. While there is some overhead (if it breaks, you have to find someone to fix it; you need to clean that filter...), people have happily accepted the decentralization since the benefits outwe…

In this case "decentralization" means drastically less overhead in terms of simply taking your dirty clothes to the other room instead of dealing with the hassle of traveling somewhere with it and potentially paying money per load and/or dealing with other tenants that might be using all the machines. People in the US don't use communal laundry because they want to, they use it because they (most likely) have to beca…

[deleted]

Re: I made my first web0 website today. It's so cool it just works

#247

Post by forthedayrate »

ZephyrBlu wrote: post #193
addicted wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The obvious question is why should these things be a pain in the ass.

If you want everything to be decentralized it will always be a pain in the ass and have way more friction compared to a centralized alternative even if it's pretty easy in absolute terms. The problem is psychological, not technical.

Does it have to be that hard though?

From a user point of view, RSS readers are easy to come by.

From a server point of view, I think a raspberry pi build that scripted most of the setup, is an achievable goal. Not an easy one, but doable.

Sadly, even if you made it super easy, most folks would stick with the big names. Still, it could be nice to start a little community of self hosted sites...

Re: I made my first web0 website today. It's so cool it just works

#248

Post by lsalvatore »

necovek wrote: post #238
lsalvatore wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, book a free call with me here: react.school/call

Why not share it in a single 10-word comment here for the benefit if all if it's so uncontroversial.

React, Redux, styled-components.

Re: I made my first web0 website today. It's so cool it just works

#249

Post by joshmanders »

mdoms wrote: post #198
lsalvatore wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

JavaScript framework churn (on the frontend) ended 6 years ago. The only thing keeping this meme going is commenters on HN.

So because there's no churn and everything is standardized I assume you can tell me which state management library is the correct choice for a React app without causing any controversy?

Yes, that's easy.

React-Query[0]: You don't need to manage state, let your server manage state just like you do in typical non-js heavy apps.

[0]: https://react-query.tanstack.com

Re: I made my first web0 website today. It's so cool it just works

#250

Post by rchaud »

Bare HTML may as well be the internet equivalent of a .txt file.

Is it good enough for some people? Absolutely. Does it even remotely meet the preferences of the average web user? No.

This must be the 100th iteration of the "motherf'ing website' manifesto I've seen. They all use default browser styling and system fonts. It's easy to marvel at how fast the site loads when the page doesn't even include so much as a JPG.

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