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Once poor, always poor?

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Re: Once poor, always poor?

#351

Post by anovikov »

MomoXenosaga wrote: post #157
anovikov wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh well this is a terrible idea beyond imagination. Even just simply "solving" poverty by the means of good old segregation, delimiting poor places with barbed wire, sounds better to me.

America is actually surprisingly socialist. Children from all backgrounds go to the same school. In my country the middle class guards their children from the deplorables. Education is no longer equal for all.

It's not, because America is highly segregated by self-increasing difference in school quality (because more expensive homes in the area yield more property taxes to the municipality which are used to fund school), and better schools make richer people move to the place, driving up both home prices, and school qualities too by improving racial and social mix of students, and it goes on and on in a self-propelling virtuous cycle. As a result most places are strictly segregated and no, children from all backgrounds don't go to the same school because they don't live (poor can't afford) in the same school district.

Re: Once poor, always poor?

#352

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

wobblybubble wrote: post #350
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Voting for things that I think are good for equality? Look, I'm not Joan of Arc - didn't claim to be. There's not a whole lot more else you can do...

Is the one percent that powerless?

You're not Iron Man until you're in the 0.001%.

~$300k after taxes isn't going to change the world.

Re: Once poor, always poor?

#354

Post by Dracophoenix »

999900000999 wrote: post #349
Dracophoenix wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I went to college mostly as a means to get some distance from my horrible family, and I advise anyone coming from a rough family to go to college just so you don't need to do with your family as much. You don't need to go to a good one, even with a GED. You can always go down to community college a few cities over. That can more than be enough. What major did you choose? How did you manage to find an apartment and t…

Back in a distant time, even in LA you could find an apartment for 600$. Add in loans and it wasn't really hard. This is why I'm actually a defender of student loans, used correctly their the best thing ever. At 18 you can do dozens of life destroying stupid things. You can have a kid you can't afford, drive drunk , etc. Taking out a loan for school isn't going to hurt even if it doesn't work out

Loans don't help with credit checks, background checks, and the now-common reluctance to renting apartments out to undergrads. I don't know how little paperwork and difficulty existed during the hallowed '90s, but I doubt those circumstances could be replicated for an 18 year old wanting to escape his family today without going homeless.

Let's not forget that government-backed loans will require information regarding parental income and assets unless you file as "Independent", a status with its own restrictions on well may apply.

Re: Once poor, always poor?

#355

Post by 999900000999 »

Dracophoenix wrote: post #354
999900000999 wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Back in a distant time, even in LA you could find an apartment for 600$. Add in loans and it wasn't really hard. This is why I'm actually a defender of student loans, used correctly their the best thing ever. At 18 you can do dozens of life destroying stupid things. You can have a kid you can't afford, drive drunk , etc. Taking out a loan for school isn't going to hurt even if it doesn't work out

Loans don't help with credit checks, background checks, and the now-common reluctance to renting apartments out to undergrads. I don't know how little paperwork and difficulty existed during the hallowed '90s, but I doubt those circumstances could be replicated for an 18 year old wanting to escape his family today without going homeless. Let's not forget that government-backed loans will require information regarding…

I'm not that old, you could get an apartment in LA for $600 just 10 years ago.

I was also working full time too, a good chunk of the time anyway, so that helped. You could seriously figure it out 10 years ago

Re: Once poor, always poor?

#356

Post by angrais »

throwaway55421 wrote: post #314
angrais wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but the point is that they started with wealth. Multiplying 1 mil to 1 billion is more reasonable possible than 1k to 1 mil. Simply because if you've such wealth already you're most likely in a position to take risks, etc.

I don't think that's true at all really, there are like 500,000 millionaires in my town alone. A billion is actually just a lot of money, there's a much more finite amount of room at the top. All you need to do to make a million quid in the UK is get a 75th percentile job and save half of it. After a few decades you are now a millionaire. I mean, everyone can't do it, but it's not some unfathomable task. In the US I…

>> All you need to do to make a million quid in the UK is get a 75th percentile job and save half of it. After a few decades you are now a millionaire. I mean, everyone can't do it, but it's not some unfathomable task.

I agree that it is possible, but it is sadly an impossible task for most. That's my point above: for those who have wealth it is easy to grow it. It takes money to make money.

My other point was that those who have a billion started with millions.

Re: Once poor, always poor?

#357

Post by smrr723 »

pjerem wrote: post #188

That’s where I can see the efficiency of free education. I live in France and I come from about the median class. I didn’t struggle in my education. But while I was a student, I saw quite a lot of people, who came from poor family being able to catch the opportunity to leave this poverty. Of course they still struggled more than me to pay their day to day expenses while I had the chance to be backed by my parents. So…

> Of course they still struggled more than me to pay their day to day expenses while I had the chance to be backed by my parents.

As others mention, this is why free education should provide everything that the children need to be able to take advantage of said free education.

I know many folk who went through the UK's free education whilst their parents struggled to even ensure they had breakfast, or lunch money. What does that do to a child's ability to concentrate and perform well in class?

The same goes for school uniforms - I remember a few who I went to school with couldn't afford the schools own brand of uniform and would just wear the closest matching unbranded clothes their parents could find - and would often get made fun of for it.

IMO - free education should include a healthy breakfast and lunch to ensure everyone is given the best chance to succeed. (The definition of healthy in the UK is another issue - our school meals growing up included some of the cheapest food available like chips, pies, sausage rolls).

I'm a fan of how Finland have tackled this issue by making private schools effectively illegal - so that all schools have the same level of funding. A nice side effect, or I guess perhaps the intended effect is that if wealthy parents are having to put their children to the same schools as working class kids - then they're going to do their best to ensure these schools are up to standard. Everyone benefits.

This video gives a bit of a glimpse into the Finnish school system - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xCe2m0kiSg

Re: Once poor, always poor?

#358

Post by throwaway2037 »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #339
throwaway2037 wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am also bothered by the rise in income inequality. Specifically, in many highly developed nations, the likelihood one can jump up income deciles has greatly decreased generation-over-generation. As someone who grew up lower middle class and leapt many, many income deciles, what ideas do you have to decrease income inequality? For example, you say that you are in the top 1% now. Do you favour increasing your own per…

I'm of the belief that income is less relevant - wealth is what really matters. My marginal tax rate is ~48%. I think that's already high enough. The idea that there is no wealth tax - and that the Fed arguably gives people a negative wealth tax - that seems a little off to me. The median home owner has about 3:1 leverage on their house - with a home value that's 4x their income. The Fed has been pumping up house pri…

I have noticed a pattern: People like to complain about their "marginal tax rate", but rarely share their "effective tax rate". What is your effective tax rate? Unless you are a multi-multi-millionaire or billionaire, only a tiny fraction of your income will be taxed at the maximum marginal tax rate.

My view: If you really believe in reducing income inequality, there is no shortcut. You need to pay. How else can we fix this issue? Beg private corporations to give huge pay rises to medium- and low-skill people? (Don't wait for it!) We need a tax code that forces the 10%/5%/1%/0.1%/0.01%/etc. to pay geometrically increasing effective tax rates. I have never seen an alternative solution that will actually work. Yes, it is painful, but what kind of society and world do we want to create?

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