The purpose of DRM is not to prevent copyright violations (2013) • Hacker News Board

Re: The purpose of DRM is not to prevent copyright violations (2013)

#11

Post by devwastaken » Tue, Dec 28, 2021, 7:08 AM UTC

kube-system wrote: post #7

I also don’t think it’s even necessary to prevent copyright infringement to achieve a goal of effectively steering people towards paid sources. I often hear arguments that its “easier to pirate movies than use DRM’d software”. But I don’t think this is actually the case for the average non-tech-savvy person. If you can operate a torrent client or even know what one is, you are much savvier than the average Netflix/Ro…

I thought this was true until I visited an old friend in a trailer park, of which their family would borrow DVDs written with pirated movies. There were many reasons why. No internet, too expensive, no blu-ray player, etc. It was amazing how they could just put in a DVD, and instantly movie for their children. These kids had rarely ever seen an ad on TV in their life. The people who made the disks got paid, too. Market incentives are a universal concept. Digital content by it's nature is infinitely copiable. So who has the better market offer? Guy in trailer park for $1 for a movie or $50/month Hulu live subscription + 70/month internet?

This is how it goes in other countries, too, where you cannot even legitimately get disks or downloads, much less be able to afford them.

It is true it's simpler to just stream content for those that have the money and tech, but if you've seen how the media giants have split the market it's not affordable to most people to have Hulu live tv, Netflix, Disney+, Spotify, etc - all to watch a few specific movies. Piracy is a natural result.

Don't underestimate the amount of tech knowledge people have nowadays, especially if it will save money. They themselves may not know, but they know someone that does. The internet has become a beautiful resource to learn absolutely anything. VPN's are advertised everywhere on YouTube. Necessity is the mother of invention after all.

Re: The purpose of DRM is not to prevent copyright violations (2013)

#12

Post by dilyevsky » Tue, Dec 28, 2021, 7:13 AM UTC

kube-system wrote: post #7

I also don’t think it’s even necessary to prevent copyright infringement to achieve a goal of effectively steering people towards paid sources. I often hear arguments that its “easier to pirate movies than use DRM’d software”. But I don’t think this is actually the case for the average non-tech-savvy person. If you can operate a torrent client or even know what one is, you are much savvier than the average Netflix/Ro…

How is drm responsible for the absence of such apps? If anything it’s the dmca systems and an army of lawyers

Re: The purpose of DRM is not to prevent copyright violations (2013)

#13

Post by etaioinshrdlu » Tue, Dec 28, 2021, 7:13 AM UTC

kingcharles wrote: post #8

All of that article is wrong. I used to work in DRM. I implemented, I believe, the first DRM for practically every major and minor record label in Europe and North America. The only reason any of them stated to me that they required DRM was to prevent copyright infringement. Yes, I pointed out the insanity of their solution. The firm I worked for didn't have the muscle of the one that came on our heels (Apple) and ma…

Yeah, I find that looking for a conspiracy here absolutely hilarious. Why can't it just be as simple as copyright holders really, really, really hate piracy, and are definitely willing to make a technical mess to do it?

They hate piracy because it does cost them. How complicated does it need to be?

Re: The purpose of DRM is not to prevent copyright violations (2013)

#14

Post by Uehreka » Tue, Dec 28, 2021, 7:20 AM UTC

So tonight I watched a 1080p pirated copy of Spiderman: Far From Home. And I gotta say, it was kinda crap. The sound would randomly cut out, and the compression was absolute ass (it was the perfect artifact to show people when explaining “not all 1080p’s are created equal”, especially when they’re fighting the water elemental)

I really do think that DRM has won folks. We have seen the 4K HDR future, and what we find on torrent sites is the same aXXo “encoded to be burned to a CD-R” bullshit I used to download as a college student. We aren’t getting 4K, we’re not even really getting 1080p. Whatever the DRM people are doing, they have succeeded in creating a gulf in quality between what you get on a streaming service, and what you get via torrents.

Re: The purpose of DRM is not to prevent copyright violations (2013)

#15

Post by 5e92cb50239222b » Tue, Dec 28, 2021, 7:21 AM UTC

devwastaken wrote: post #11

kube-system wrote: post #7

I also don’t think it’s even necessary to prevent copyright infringement to achieve a goal of effectively steering people towards paid sources. I often hear arguments that its “easier to pirate movies than use DRM’d software”. But I don’t think this is actually the case for the average non-tech-savvy person. If you can operate a torrent client or even know what one is, you are much savvier than the average Netflix/Ro…

I thought this was true until I visited an old friend in a trailer park, of which their family would borrow DVDs written with pirated movies. There were many reasons why. No internet, too expensive, no blu-ray player, etc. It was amazing how they could just put in a DVD, and instantly movie for their children. These kids had rarely ever seen an ad on TV in their life. The people who made the disks got paid, too. Mark…

> This is how it goes in other countries, too, where you cannot even legitimately get disks or downloads, much less be able to afford them.

Oh yes, thank you for remembering that. It's truly an exception around here.

Pretty much all streaming services refuse to accept my money or provide access to 0.1-1% of their catalog (compared to what is available in the US, literally a few to a few dozen shows/movies) for exactly the same price per month, so who would even bother? Of course, you can always try to find a working VPN, if they weren't getting blocked all the time.

I believe Spotify is the only service that gives access to the same selection as in every other country.

So everyone "pirates" everything, especially if you want content in its untranslated original form.

Edit: except for games. Most games are available from Steam and other major platforms, and those are very popular.

Re: The purpose of DRM is not to prevent copyright violations (2013)

#16

Post by ch17z » Tue, Dec 28, 2021, 7:22 AM UTC

Uehreka wrote: post #14

So tonight I watched a 1080p pirated copy of Spiderman: Far From Home. And I gotta say, it was kinda crap. The sound would randomly cut out, and the compression was absolute ass (it was the perfect artifact to show people when explaining “not all 1080p’s are created equal”, especially when they’re fighting the water elemental) I really do think that DRM has won folks. We have seen the 4K HDR future, and what we find…

We?

Re: The purpose of DRM is not to prevent copyright violations (2013)

#17

Post by mkotowski » Tue, Dec 28, 2021, 7:24 AM UTC

kube-system wrote: post #7

I also don’t think it’s even necessary to prevent copyright infringement to achieve a goal of effectively steering people towards paid sources. I often hear arguments that its “easier to pirate movies than use DRM’d software”. But I don’t think this is actually the case for the average non-tech-savvy person. If you can operate a torrent client or even know what one is, you are much savvier than the average Netflix/Ro…

> If you can operate a torrent client or even know what one is, you are much savvier than the average Netflix/Roku/etc user.

Probably depends from where you are. In Poland some 15 years ealier, it was quite a common skill, even for people who rarely used anything else on the internet. Many people had crappy and unstable connections and torrenting was the only viable option for them to watch anything from the Internet.

#18

Post by 14 » Tue, Dec 28, 2021, 7:26 AM UTC

Uehreka wrote: post #14

So tonight I watched a 1080p pirated copy of Spiderman: Far From Home. And I gotta say, it was kinda crap. The sound would randomly cut out, and the compression was absolute ass (it was the perfect artifact to show people when explaining “not all 1080p’s are created equal”, especially when they’re fighting the water elemental) I really do think that DRM has won folks. We have seen the 4K HDR future, and what we find…

Maybe for a high visual movie like spiderman but there are many movies that are fine watching in a lower quality. Also it just depends on the torrent that is available. I have seen screeners that were of high quality, mind you a couple scenes were missing the special effects but hardly took away from the video imo.

#19

Post by 14 » Tue, Dec 28, 2021, 7:30 AM UTC

kube-system wrote: post #7

I also don’t think it’s even necessary to prevent copyright infringement to achieve a goal of effectively steering people towards paid sources. I often hear arguments that its “easier to pirate movies than use DRM’d software”. But I don’t think this is actually the case for the average non-tech-savvy person. If you can operate a torrent client or even know what one is, you are much savvier than the average Netflix/Ro…

My dad is elderly and has figured out how to watch online movies for free. He goes to [1] and it is just like netflix point and click no skill needed.

1 https://flixtor.to/home

#20

Post by kube-system » Tue, Dec 28, 2021, 7:38 AM UTC

14 wrote: post #19

kube-system wrote: post #7

I also don’t think it’s even necessary to prevent copyright infringement to achieve a goal of effectively steering people towards paid sources. I often hear arguments that its “easier to pirate movies than use DRM’d software”. But I don’t think this is actually the case for the average non-tech-savvy person. If you can operate a torrent client or even know what one is, you are much savvier than the average Netflix/Ro…

My dad is elderly and has figured out how to watch online movies for free. He goes to [1] and it is just like netflix point and click no skill needed. 1 https://flixtor.to/home

I have no doubt that one, or even thousand of seniors are pirating the latest movies. I’m not saying that people don’t pirate stuff.

But Netflix has 213 million users. If pirating was really so much easier and DRM made legal options unusable, they wouldn’t.

DRM sucks, but Netflix isn’t going out of business any time soon