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Ask HN: What is your spiritual practice?

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Re: Ask HN: What is your spiritual practice?

#841

Post by dragonwriter »

Thorentis wrote: post #693
aappleby wrote: post #681

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can certainly understand religion in an external, objective sense much as you can understand the various interconnected storylines in something like the Marvel comics/movies, but as soon as you ask me "...but do you _believe_ it?", my brain just fails its saving throw versus comprehension and I can't give an answer based on what I "feel" is correct, because on that particular question I am unable to "feel" anything…

Okay, but you said: "that would require assuming that the statement "Is there a god?" is both coherent, meaningful, and answerable." What part of this question is incoherent, unmeaningful, and unanswerable, if you are able to understand religion in an objective sense?

> What part of this question is incoherent, unmeaningful, and unanswerable,

“Is there a god?”

> if you are able to understand religion in an objective sense?

You (in the general rather than specific sense) are not.

Re: Ask HN: What is your spiritual practice?

#843

Post by stjohnswarts »

None. Maybe humanism and secularism combined can be called a spiritual system? I mean I like to think of a higher purpose in being a good human, and your influence can live on down through generations by the works you do as a good human. Most of us won't ever be great humans, but we can all be good humans. I think modern takes on “spiritualism” are bogus and likely no better than what has come before considering the overwhelming failure of organized religions to better the human condition.

Re: Ask HN: What is your spiritual practice?

#844

Post by stjohnswarts »

theonething wrote: post #837
deathofsocrates wrote: post #302

Atheism. downright non-believer. Grew up by a deist family. they were not really religious. I do remember hearing praying every now and then from my childhood but it was not something that's reflected to me as important part of life. Later on met lots of religious people but did not find them interesting. After learning more about science and technology, the unresolved facts started to disturb me while I was still yo…

> it is very hard to unsee the cruel world and fool yourself with religion I'm Christian and it is seeing this cruel world that confirms for me the existence of human sin and the need for a solution. Science is wonderful and explains a lot of things and has resulted in a lot of good, but so far for me, it doesn't not explain adequately why this world is so cruel and what to do about. And it doesn't speak to morality…

Morality is orthogonal to religion.

Re: Ask HN: What is your spiritual practice?

#845

Post by theonething »

omarfarooq wrote: post #834
theonething wrote: post #828

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How do you know beyond a shadow of a doubt that you have his teachings? "The New Testament has been preserved in more manuscripts than any other ancient work of literature..." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_manuscript "Most historical critics agree that a historical figure named Jesus taught throughout the Galilean countryside c. 30 CE, was believed by his followers to have performed supernatural acts, and…

> To your point about the miracles attributed to him, again, because he didn't manifest those miracles to everyone ever, they didn't happen? Recall that I responded to a GP that said all this is "beyond doubt." You're arguing a strawman with me. (On a personal note, I do believe in many of the miracles attested to Jesus, but that isn't evidence to me that he was God in the flesh.) As for your links, I counter suggest…

Your assertion was that GP's statement is not beyond all doubt because Jesus only manifested to a small group of people. [1]

I don't think your reason for your assertion is valid. Jesus only manifesting to a relatively (relative to all of humanity) small group of people doesn't invalidate or cast doubt on anything.

You might have other reasons for doubting His divinity, but I don't think the one you've professed is a good one.

[1] "Beyond all doubt" is doubtful since, taking your assertions for granted, he only manifested himself to an infinitesimally small cross-section of humanity.

Re: Ask HN: What is your spiritual practice?

#846

Post by mvkel »

I was a staunch atheist until very recently, when I asked myself the question: isn’t atheism about being -sure- that there is no higher power? How can anyone be sure? Isn’t it arrogant to think that?

So I’d say I’m now agnostic — I simply don’t know.

Re: Ask HN: What is your spiritual practice?

#847

Post by TchoBeer »

waserwill wrote: post #682
TchoBeer wrote: post #296

I'm a religious Jew, in a bit of a crisis of faith. I still pray three times a day, I still make shabbat and observe holidays, I even still learn Torah even though I don't really believe in it anymore, because I find being well read useful when I have to explain the times I do break the cultural norms to people. Orthodox Judaism in general has a lot of laws everywhere: what you wear, what you eat, what you put in you…

I read this coming from a very different background (secular), but I've seen a lot of these issues around me too. Especially among people raised MO (the chasidish and litvish have similar problems, but frame them differently). for what it's worth, 18forty has done several discussions on these themes, and they resonated with me: 18forty.org/rational (in particular, with Shmuel Phillips. Their discussions of OTD and my…

18fourty is a great podcast, I actually personally know the anonymous interviewee.

Re: Ask HN: What is your spiritual practice?

#848

Post by TchoBeer »

defgeneric wrote: post #599
TchoBeer wrote: post #296

I'm a religious Jew, in a bit of a crisis of faith. I still pray three times a day, I still make shabbat and observe holidays, I even still learn Torah even though I don't really believe in it anymore, because I find being well read useful when I have to explain the times I do break the cultural norms to people. Orthodox Judaism in general has a lot of laws everywhere: what you wear, what you eat, what you put in you…

It's a lot easier to leave when you have another community to go to. That's why there's nothing wrong with "sneaking around" or living a separate private life while you build up relationships and friendships.

That's for sure true, and I'm also not sure if everything I want from a community is present elsewhere, at least all in one place. Anyway, it's hard to find a new community to live in when I'm still in college and don't yet have full time employment.

Re: Ask HN: What is your spiritual practice?

#849

Post by theonething »

stjohnswarts wrote: post #844
theonething wrote: post #837

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it is very hard to unsee the cruel world and fool yourself with religion I'm Christian and it is seeing this cruel world that confirms for me the existence of human sin and the need for a solution. Science is wonderful and explains a lot of things and has resulted in a lot of good, but so far for me, it doesn't not explain adequately why this world is so cruel and what to do about. And it doesn't speak to morality…

Morality is orthogonal to religion.

You may believe that relative morality is orthogonal to religion, but by definition, absolute morality is not possible without a point of reference outside of us, i.e. religion.

And I would say relative morality is no morality at all. Pedophilia, murder, rape, etc is absolutely wrong. I don't care what you compare it to.

And I would assert morality is orthogonal to science.

Re: Ask HN: What is your spiritual practice?

#850

Post by aristofun »

dragonwriter wrote: post #620
aristofun wrote: post #520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what's actual difference between God and concept of God? This is rethorical question, 'cause there is no easy answer, and yet my original statement is valid. In this case god-hating atheists confirm the existence of god in the form of 'concept' you may say.

> In this case god-hating atheists confirm the existence of god in the form of ‘concept’ you may say. The existence of a concept is not the same thing as the existence of the thing the concept refers to.

> The existence of a concept is not the same thing as the existence of the thing the concept refers to.

Yes it is, for most of the average Joe believers the concept of god is the god, since they never faced any other kind of god in their life.

The same with zombies - if you afraid of them => they definitely exist _at least_ in your head! Otherwise what the hell exactly are you afraid of?

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