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Once poor, always poor?

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251–260 of 358 posts

Re: Once poor, always poor?

#252
post #195
post #188

That’s where I can see the efficiency of free education. I live in France and I come from about the median class. I didn’t struggle in my education. But while I was a student, I saw quite a lot of people, who came from poor family being able to catch the opportunity to leave this poverty. Of course they still struggled more than me to pay their day to day expenses while I had the chance to be backed by my parents. So…

This is a harder problem than just "Free Education". I grew up in the UK (in "deprived" areas, to a single parent with no income other than jobseekers allowance and some childcare from the state) and I can formerly attest that my "free education" was atrocious. I am not sure if there was a negative feedback loop involved: School funding was determined by efficacy. How do you measure efficacy of a school? Well, test r…

> How do you measure efficacy of a school?

Over the long term? The frequency and size of the checks their alumni write them. It's good signal that the alumnus likes the school well enough wish to do so and was prepared to be successful enough to be able to.

Re: Once poor, always poor?

#253
post #155
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My main philosophical gripe is that it doesn't seem to really matter what your major is. Can't you just hack this by going to school for pretty much anything you're interested in and being able to work in an unrelated field? > my next gripe with it is the seemingly insurmountable debt that said education brings You've established that education is a good investment. So why not find an affordable college? It's not a…

> You've established that education is a good investment. My friend often comes to me and says, "Hey, man, how come you don't invest your money in ?" Because I'm living in poverty. People who live in poverty don't have money to invest. > So why not find an affordable college? So I did a quick calculation. Affordable, meaning junior college and public state college, would come out to roughly $23k for a bachelor. Maybe…

No post body was provided.

Re: Once poor, always poor?

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Breaking the cycle by sending the kids away" has a long history of well-intentioned attempts nearly always leading to disastrous outcomes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolen_Generations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Indian_residential_sc... https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55238090 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidnapping_of_children_by_Nazi...

That is a good point. But all these had racist reasons at their core. Can this be better implemented today? With extensive supervision and scrutiny. For example, teenagers routinely join the army, and spend time learning and training at what is essentially a boarding school. It seems to work quite well.

>But all these had reasons at their core. Can this be better implemented today?

The people sending the Indians away to religious schools in the 1910s said the same damn thing about prior attempts to do the same damn thing.

Re: Once poor, always poor?

#255
post #188

That’s where I can see the efficiency of free education. I live in France and I come from about the median class. I didn’t struggle in my education. But while I was a student, I saw quite a lot of people, who came from poor family being able to catch the opportunity to leave this poverty. Of course they still struggled more than me to pay their day to day expenses while I had the chance to be backed by my parents. So…

I agree, but housing is the real kicker in Europe. Lower wages and higher taxes on working people (income and sales tax are way higher than property, inheritance and capital gains taxes (if they even exist!)) make it almost impossible to save up a reasonable deposit. Meanwhile house prices have gone to the moon. 30% rise in Stockholm in the last year alone for example, a 100+% rise in most of southern England since 2…

At least you get social services. In the USA you don't, and you still can't afford a house anything like what you grew up in.

Re: Once poor, always poor?

#256
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm one of those people living in poverty that distrusts school institutions. My main philosophical gripe is that it doesn't seem to really matter what your major is. "Oh, you got a bachelors in Biology? Well, I guess that's fine. Come work at my tech company in a way that is completely unrelated to Biology." In this particular situation, it seems like the only purpose of college is to create arbitrary classist hurdl…

> My main philosophical gripe is that it doesn't seem to really matter what your major is. "Oh, you got a bachelors in Biology? Well, I guess that's fine. Come work at my tech company in a way that is completely unrelated to Biology." In this particular situation, it seems like the only purpose of college is to create arbitrary classist hurdles for poor people to jump through. In the U.S., this is due to the fact tha…

You don't think class enters into it?

Tell us you grew up in an middle-upper class environment without telling us you grew up middle-upper class.

Re: Once poor, always poor?

#257
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm one of those people living in poverty that distrusts school institutions. My main philosophical gripe is that it doesn't seem to really matter what your major is. "Oh, you got a bachelors in Biology? Well, I guess that's fine. Come work at my tech company in a way that is completely unrelated to Biology." In this particular situation, it seems like the only purpose of college is to create arbitrary classist hurdl…

I'm seeing a lot of anecdotal evidence you're using to justify your biases. This isn't an attack on you; I think you would have a tremendous amount to gain from a science education. Please consider it for the future of you and your family.

Going beyond anecdotes, the data is clear that there is no economic benefit. Wages are stagnant and job quality is in decline alongside the rise of post-secondary attainment.

While there is no doubt an entertainment benefit to be gained, that is not likely the best choice for someone without the means to take on nearly a million dollars of opportunity cost.

Re: Once poor, always poor?

#258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As usual in the American racial discourse, this argument entirely ignores the huge gaping hole in its side that is the Asian community. Casual racism against Asians is pretty strong, not just in the US, in Europe, too. (My own country has a significant Vietnamese community and casual racism against them was absolutely shocking in the 1990s. It has since become less pronounced, but is still there.) And yet they thrive…

It isn’t surprising that groups like descendants of chattel slavery who have had the same legal rights as white people for about half a century are systematically worse off than groups like middle class immigrants from East Asia.

"middle class immigrants from East Asia"

That is just a small part of the entire picture. Plenty of Asians arrived as low wage manual workers or refugees (boat people) from then-strongly underdeveloped countries. Sometimes as orphans or incomplete families with all male relatives killed.

Or you can look at Jewish people, terrorized, oppressed and killed by their neighbours for centuries. Expressions like "pogrom" and "ghetto" come from a long, bloody history of violent antisemitism.

Re: Once poor, always poor?

#259

The average number of children per Nigerian woman was something like 5 in 2019. No shit they’re always going to be poor. I would even be poor breeding at that rate.

Poorer countries tend to have high birth rates. As they get richer, the birth rate decreases.

This comment seems to state that poverty is a result of high birth rates, rather than the other way around. There are very good reasons for families in a society without a strong social safety net to have many children.

Re: Once poor, always poor?

#260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sometimes think, one way to break this cycle is to send the all the kids to boarding school or military school. It could put them in an environment free from their background circumstances. It is of course a harsh thing to do, but I think maybe it could work.

> send the all the kids to boarding school or military school. It could put them in an environment free from their background circumstances. It is a common meme in some circles that sending (problematic) kids to boarding or military school will "set them straight". To me, it's basically just hope that a bit more violence will work. Also, after 6 years spent in an environment where you are told what to do every minute…

Can confirm. My oldest daughter roomed in College with a girl who came from a structured boarding school. She was a mess. I also recall a similar experience when I was in College.
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