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Risk of myocarditis following sequential COVID-19 vaccinations by age and sex [pdf]

medrxiv.org

141–150 of 207 posts

Re: Risk of myocarditis following sequential COVID-19 vaccinations by age and sex [pdf]

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, your friend had no hospitalization. We don't count people who see a doctor a few times and have long term side-effects as hospitalized from COVID, so in an apples-to-apples comparison the example of your friend should not go into that column. Here is the source: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2110737 : > A total of 76% of cases of myocarditis were described as mild and 22% as intermediate; 1 case wa…

In that case, I'm wondering how valuable the hospitalization metric is. Someone can be incidentally hospitalized, and discharged with no serious long term issues, the ER is the only option for many non insured in the USA, while a life altering long term side effect may never result in hospitalization, but is something that should go into the risk profile of either catching covid or an adverse reaction to the vaccine.…

Going to the ER isn't being hospitalized.

And if you show up to the ER they don't send you to a hospital bed, they don't have hospital beds to give out like candy these days. Even if you have a suspected heart attack (based on cardiac enzymes in your blood not just clutching at your chest acting like you're in a stage play) then you're still going to be waiting hours for a bed to open up. Someone with the sniffles isn't ever getting close to a bed.

Re: Risk of myocarditis following sequential COVID-19 vaccinations by age and sex [pdf]

#142
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your overall odds of death from covid went down. And as I understand it, myocarditis often goes away on its own or can be treated at home.

It largely depends on the affected area... It can kill you instantly if it takes conduction centers, kill you years later if it damages the muscle or it can leave no consequences at all. It can go unnoticed and still leave you with long term damages.

> It can go unnoticed and still leave you with long term damages.

That‘s the scary part imho, it appears that the long-term adverse cardiac risk is pretty much unknown.

Re: Risk of myocarditis following sequential COVID-19 vaccinations by age and sex [pdf]

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In that case, I'm wondering how valuable the hospitalization metric is. Someone can be incidentally hospitalized, and discharged with no serious long term issues, the ER is the only option for many non insured in the USA, while a life altering long term side effect may never result in hospitalization, but is something that should go into the risk profile of either catching covid or an adverse reaction to the vaccine.…

It's quite rare to be incidentally hospitalized. If you are hospitalized, you are very very sick. You don't get hospitalized for a broken arm, you get a cast and maybe some painkillers and you're sent home. If you are sick enough to be hospitalized, you are likely to be sick enough that COVID is dangerous to you and requires medical attention. The vast majority of people hospitalized with covid have long term side ef…

There are many hospital patients who are admitted for other conditions and diagnosed with asymptomatic COVID-19 during routine admission screening. This is particularly common among pediatric patients.

Re: Risk of myocarditis following sequential COVID-19 vaccinations by age and sex [pdf]

#144
post #12

This paper essentially argues that the risk of myocarditis in under-40 males getting 2 shots is greater (perhaps much greater) than the risk of getting it from COVID. There have been similar studies before, but none (that I saw) broken down by age and sex like this. It reads: > Despite more myocarditis events occurring in older persons, the risk following COVID-19 vaccination was largely restricted to younger males a…

Thanks for the explanation. > argues that the risk of myocarditis in under-40 males getting 2 shots is greater (perhaps much greater) than the risk of getting it from COVID The way I read this is the risk of myocarditis is greater with vaccination, but this does not tell me about the overall risk of serious illness/death from Covid for vaxed VS unvaxed. So - risk of myocarditis goes up - but is it still overall safer…

I say we are all still in the experimental ... we are trying to figure things out phase but really we aren't totally sure. Learning as we go... OMG!!

I mean the CDC recommended the J&J shot earlier this year now many months later they recommend against. Scary..along with this research here ... yikes!

Re: Risk of myocarditis following sequential COVID-19 vaccinations by age and sex [pdf]

#145

Wow, I just got the Pfizer booster a few days ago and I'm an under-40 male who has previously had pericarditis... I was worried about the risk being greater than the reward for my age group but didn't have the age-stratified data to prove it. Kind of regretting it now, especially since I only got it at the urging of my wife. I just needlessly increased the odds of a giving myself a heart issue for absolutely no reaso…

No post body was provided.

Re: Risk of myocarditis following sequential COVID-19 vaccinations by age and sex [pdf]

#146
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh god yes. Considering the leech-like synecdoche journals are for all that stinks in academia at the moment, I really wish they'd try and make a better place for public discussion between experts than Twitter spats. There are probably far too many papers that academics have discovered flaws in but don't have time to do anything about

i am agreeing with you and parent comment, there is definitely room for growth in how these journals are presented. i think having access to the full discussion would be an amazing step forward for the science community as well as those who are interested in grasping a deeper understanding of how and why the discussion decided to go with their findings

some journals like Elife or Frontiers do publish the commentary. I think for COVID related papers it should be a requirement in all journals

Re: Risk of myocarditis following sequential COVID-19 vaccinations by age and sex [pdf]

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

> given the rate of deaths are 10-20x worse than the worst flu years. I have a hard time accepting this premise. Mostly because the flu was somehow eradicated at the outset of mass covid testing, many of the covid tests did not distinguish between the flu and covid. Furthermore, I believe that we actually responded to covid in a way that caused excess covid deaths by over counting deaths and actively suppressing unpa…

> Mostly because the flu was somehow eradicated at the outset of mass covid testing (...)

Perhaps all those basic public health measures implemented to contain and eliminate the spread of air borne diseases such as COVID or the flu is a factor?

I mean,the lockdowns alone have a clear and critical and measurable (and measured) impact in lowering the spread of COVID. Wouldn't it be possible that staying away from people with the flu was also a factor in not catching the flu?

Re: Risk of myocarditis following sequential COVID-19 vaccinations by age and sex [pdf]

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, your friend had no hospitalization. We don't count people who see a doctor a few times and have long term side-effects as hospitalized from COVID, so in an apples-to-apples comparison the example of your friend should not go into that column. Here is the source: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2110737 : > A total of 76% of cases of myocarditis were described as mild and 22% as intermediate; 1 case wa…

In that case, I'm wondering how valuable the hospitalization metric is. Someone can be incidentally hospitalized, and discharged with no serious long term issues, the ER is the only option for many non insured in the USA, while a life altering long term side effect may never result in hospitalization, but is something that should go into the risk profile of either catching covid or an adverse reaction to the vaccine.…

Even before covid, hospital resources in many countries are quite limited, a big responsibility of ER doctors is to triage patients, they would not hospitalize anyone for non-serious reasons just because you asked (in the UK). You can be hospitalized without a firm diagnosis if your symptoms possibly indicate something life threatening like stroke.

Re: Risk of myocarditis following sequential COVID-19 vaccinations by age and sex [pdf]

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In that case, I'm wondering how valuable the hospitalization metric is. Someone can be incidentally hospitalized, and discharged with no serious long term issues, the ER is the only option for many non insured in the USA, while a life altering long term side effect may never result in hospitalization, but is something that should go into the risk profile of either catching covid or an adverse reaction to the vaccine.…

It's quite rare to be incidentally hospitalized. If you are hospitalized, you are very very sick. You don't get hospitalized for a broken arm, you get a cast and maybe some painkillers and you're sent home. If you are sick enough to be hospitalized, you are likely to be sick enough that COVID is dangerous to you and requires medical attention. The vast majority of people hospitalized with covid have long term side ef…

The UK recently updated its stats on this. About a third of "hospitalized COVID patients" caught it in hospital. So it's really not that rare.

Re: Risk of myocarditis following sequential COVID-19 vaccinations by age and sex [pdf]

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a horribly misleading comparison. Compare the risk of illness with severity similar to heart complications, or compare death rates. Don't compare one to the other. The majority of myocarditis cases due to the vaccine don't even require hospitalization.

> The majority of myocarditis cases due to the vaccine don't even require hospitalization. Interestingly, this stood out to me: > The outcomes of interest in this study were hospital admission or death from myocarditis. Myocarditis was defined as the first hospital admission in the study period or death using International Classification of Diseases (ICD)-10 codes (Supplementary Table 6). In other words, this study d…

Such a person would be included as a COVID-19 death in the statistics because those data sets all assume correlation = causation, actually you don't even need to test positive at the time of death. Any positive within 28 days of the death is sufficient. But the death certificate might record the cause differently, depending on arbitrary factors like how hard working the relevant staff are feeling that day.
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