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Ubisoft deleted account with hundreds of dollars’ worth of games for inactivity

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Re: Ubisoft deleted account with hundreds of dollars’ worth of games for inactivity

#71

Post by endisneigh »

pdonis wrote: post #63
endisneigh wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're entirely missing the point of the comment if you think it's about games. It's about digital goods.

I can't think of any "digital good" where there is a risk of losing access in this way that isn't recreational in a similar way to games. So my comments would apply equally well to any such goods.

You're on a forum called "Hacker News" and you can't think of a single digital good that's not recreational?

In any case the biggest examples would be software.

Re: Ubisoft deleted account with hundreds of dollars’ worth of games for inactivity

#72

Post by Hokusai »

pdonis wrote: post #54
Hokusai wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You have the right not to pay money to companies that won't give you the guarantee of ownership and access that you want. I have way more rights than that. Or if not I will fight to get them. I do not want to depend on the good will of corporations. I want fair laws that control their behavior like we have with physical goods.

> I have way more rights than that. Or if not I will fight to get them. So let me get this straight: companies are offering a recreational product, games, on terms you don't like. But instead of not paying them money, so they will be forced to either change their business model or go out of business, you want to get the government involved? For games ? > I do not want to depend on the good will of corporations. Good…

> you want to get the government involved? For games?

The government is already involved, I cannot copy the games from my friend because the government does not allow me to do it. The government protects Ubisoft from me hacking them, or from paying in a fraudulent way.

The government is fully involved in all the steps, I just want that my interests are represented in that involvement.

> Good luck with that.

I do not live in the USA.

Re: Ubisoft deleted account with hundreds of dollars’ worth of games for inactivity

#73

Post by pdonis »

wyattpeak wrote: post #61
pdonis wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have way more rights than that. Or if not I will fight to get them. So let me get this straight: companies are offering a recreational product, games, on terms you don't like. But instead of not paying them money, so they will be forced to either change their business model or go out of business, you want to get the government involved? For games ? > I do not want to depend on the good will of corporations. Good…

> For games? No, for money. These actions are always dismissed on the basis that they're not selling something important. But setting aside the question of whether that's valid, they are selling in exchange for something important.

> These actions are always dismissed on the basis that they're not selling something important.

No, it's on the basis that the buyer knew the terms perfectly well before the sale, and bought the thing anyway. The fact that it's a game that was bought just makes it even more unreasonable for the buyer to want to retroactively change the terms of the sale.

Re: Ubisoft deleted account with hundreds of dollars’ worth of games for inactivity

#74

Post by alasdair_ »

pdonis wrote: post #39
endisneigh wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I apologize but I find this to be a silly question. I buy because I want to play. I do not have an expectation of indefinite ownership (even though I should have indefinite ownership), hence my comment.

> I do not have an expectation of indefinite ownership But you said you were nervous about buying these things. What are you nervous about? And why do you pay money anyway if you're nervous about what you're getting? > even though I should have indefinite ownership On what grounds? These are companies operating in a free market. They're offering a product whose terms are right out there in the open. If you don't like…

The terms are not a negotiated contract - they are dictated by one side and even if they are read by the purchaser, the implications of the terms may not be obvious. Many/most people will not understand that after paying hundreds of dollars for games, their games could suddenly be taken away from them without recourse.

For a ridiculous example, imagine there was a clause buried in the fineprint that allowed the store owner to charge you $5000 to unlock the game whenever they chose to. Even if it were in the T&C, it would be ruled invalid because it was so unexpected.

Similarly, removing the right to play a game you have bought with money because you haven’t played it “enough” (according to the vendor) may also be considered unreasonavlble.

Re: Ubisoft deleted account with hundreds of dollars’ worth of games for inactivity

#75

Post by humanistbot »

lostcolony wrote: post #50
MattGaiser wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be interested in knowing if that would be legal. As might you technically have purchased your license?

Generally speaking, it's uploading/transferring content to others that is illegal, not downloading it for yourself. At least, de facto if not de jure.

In most jurisdictions, copyright infringement isn't a crime, it is a civil tort, meaning you can be sued by the copyright holder for damages. Most big media copyright holders (MPAA/RIAA/etc) have a policy of only going after uploaders because it just isn't cost effective to go after downloaders for damages. A downloader can only be sued for the retail value of what they downloaded, while uploaders can be sued for the retail value of what they uploaded times the number of downloads. But this isn't codified in law, it is just corporate policy.

Re: Ubisoft deleted account with hundreds of dollars’ worth of games for inactivity

#76

Post by [deleted] »

endisneigh wrote: post #8
josephcsible wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the idea is that NFTs aren't deleteable.

From the article: > Unfortunately, there’s also a clause in the ToS that no credit will be given back to the user in cases of account termination or suspension. The company’s support page also cites the General Data Protection Regulation compliance and freeing database space as the main reason why they delete unused accounts. Again, how would NFTs fix this problem? A solution to the problem described in the article w…

[deleted]

Re: Ubisoft deleted account with hundreds of dollars’ worth of games for inactivity

#77

Post by sowbug »

qwertox wrote: post #55

I'm not blaming the owner of the email account, but maybe we need a technology which guarantees that emails won't get flagged as spam. Maybe even marked as important. For example Ubisoft could register with Google for a program where they fetch a token from Google's servers, insert that token into the email header, and when Google notices this token in the header, then the email won't get flagged as spam. Only for th…

I believe a generalized version of this proposal is covered in RFC 3514.

Re: Ubisoft deleted account with hundreds of dollars’ worth of games for inactivity

#78

Post by kranner »

causi wrote: post #67
sefrost wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn’t feel any guilt about pirating the content I bought on any of those services if my account was taken from me for inactivity. I’d be interested to hear the argument about why that would be wrong though.

These days I generally pirate the single-player content I purchase anyway. Anything that requires Origin, Epic, uPlay, or any other cancerous software to be installed gets paid for and promptly pirated. I trust the Pirate Bay more than I trust Ubisoft.

I do the same thing for my Kindle purchases. Luckily I have a Paperwhite whose serial number works with DeDRM to strip DRM for all my Kindle purchases (except Hindi books which are not downloadable for some reason).

Re: Ubisoft deleted account with hundreds of dollars’ worth of games for inactivity

#79

Post by tombert »

platz wrote: post #70
josephcsible wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's definitely fine morally, but unfortunately it's illegal anyway.

Quoted post unavailable.

Why is that? If you buy the game off Steam or something, this implies that the creators/publishers/platforms have gotten their due compensation. The cracks and files on ThePirateBay are done on a volunteer basis, meaning that it’s not costing the game developers any money.

Re: Ubisoft deleted account with hundreds of dollars’ worth of games for inactivity

#80

Post by pdonis »

MereInterest wrote: post #66
pdonis wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have the right not to pay money to companies that won't give you the guarantee of ownership and access that you want. But if the lack of that guarantee is right there in the company's terms of service, and you pay them money anyway, you don't have the right to insist that they change the terms you signed up to when you paid them just because you don't like the consequences.

What the large print giveth, the small print may not taketh away. If the large print says "Buy", the small print may not alter that to "License for a limited time that may be ended whenever we feel like it." The small print may clarify what the large print says, but direct contradiction is a form of false advertising.

I just now checked Ubisoft's website and clicked on a random game. Yes, there is a big "BUY" button, but once I click it, I get a page that asks me what length of time I want to purchase a subscription for. So it's quite clear, at least for that one game, that what you are buying is a subscription to something, not a product that you get ownership of indefinitely.

The game sellers, if someone did actually try to make the "false advertising" argument, would probably argue that it's common knowledge that "buying" a game from their online store does not mean you get indefinite ownership. It would be an interesting case if anyone ever did try it.

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