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Once poor, always poor?

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Re: Once poor, always poor?

#31

Post by AlexTWithBeard »

difosfor wrote: post #23

Given the generally accepted ideal of equality in the rich and educated world it strikes me as crazy that we continue to work hard to keep refugees out of our islands of wealth instead of structurally working on improving the chances of all people on earth. We seem to just turn a blind eye to this huge inequality or even increase and abuse it when it suits us. For example: Why don't we apply our minimum wage laws to…

> Why don't we spend a significant part of our riches

The idea is noble and tempting, but the specifics of implementation (id est, who are "we", what is "a significant part" and how exactly should we spend it) are hard to decide.

Re: Once poor, always poor?

#32

Post by AlexTWithBeard »

netizen-936824 wrote: post #26
Jensson wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not much, the main problem is that the kids aren't getting basic education. Every kid in developed nations has access to free education and parents aren't allowed to make their kids work to feed the home instead of going to schools. In Nigeria kids often don't have access to free education, and even when they do parents often prefer having their kids work to bring home money over making them go to school.

What about kids in poverty in the US? Are you sure they're getting a good education? Are they hungry when they go to school? How hard is it to learn when you don't have good nutrition?

They are getting a decent education.

In addition, they get for free perfect knowledge of English, work eligibility in the US and an extensive network of friends and relatives. Something that many immigrants can only dream about.

Re: Once poor, always poor?

#33

Post by netizen-936824 »

ivanmontillam wrote: post #24

It's true that culture can make you poor, by the means of setting your mindset. I've seen people in the towns of South America (i.e. not the main cities) whose family traditions set them on a path of "wait to be given" instead of "go and get it" mentality. Of course, this never materializes, and the person lives their life impoverished. Money is such a taboo in these families, that you end up thinking it's dirty unti…

So what's the life meaning they should chase? Money? Human greed seems to center around money and causes tons of issues in society, maybe those families have the right sort of idea thinking of it as dirty

Re: Once poor, always poor?

#34

Post by AlexTWithBeard »

ivanmontillam wrote: post #24

It's true that culture can make you poor, by the means of setting your mindset. I've seen people in the towns of South America (i.e. not the main cities) whose family traditions set them on a path of "wait to be given" instead of "go and get it" mentality. Of course, this never materializes, and the person lives their life impoverished. Money is such a taboo in these families, that you end up thinking it's dirty unti…

> if you're a teenage girl, depending on your culture, your family seems to be peer pressuring you to be a mother

Ironically, societies that do not steer girls to parenthood are subject to extinction. I'm not saying it's good or bad. It's just the law of nature.

Re: Once poor, always poor?

#35

Post by amcoastal »

b9a2cab5 wrote: post #22
sp332 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being able to work to increase your own wealth isn't really controversial. In fact most Americans over-estimate the amount of economic mobility that we have, which is probably what the article is referring to. And rich families tend to have their wealth eroded in just 2-3 generations. https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/generational-wealth%3A-why-d...

> In fact most Americans over-estimate the amount of economic mobility that we have Your link seems to say otherwise. If economic mobility were low then most rich families would not see their wealth meaningfully eroded for generations. This was the case in feudal Europe and many ancient empires like Rome. The fact that most families lose wealth in 3 generations due to mismanagement implies someone else is gaining tha…

You think the people gaining the wealth that some rich families are losing are people that need high economic mobility and not just other rich people?

Re: Once poor, always poor?

#36

Post by anamax »

netizen-936824 wrote: post #26
Jensson wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not much, the main problem is that the kids aren't getting basic education. Every kid in developed nations has access to free education and parents aren't allowed to make their kids work to feed the home instead of going to schools. In Nigeria kids often don't have access to free education, and even when they do parents often prefer having their kids work to bring home money over making them go to school.

What about kids in poverty in the US? Are you sure they're getting a good education? Are they hungry when they go to school? How hard is it to learn when you don't have good nutrition?

There are many food programs as well as meals at schools in the US.

Before you write "food deserts", the data isn't as clear as you think it is. (The "researchers" ignored food stores.) More to the point, stores go to where folks will buy what they're selling (unless they're burned out or lose too much to shoplifting).

Re: Once poor, always poor?

#37

Post by synthos »

sp332 wrote: post #12
throwaway55421 wrote: post #3

"It is a sad and little-known reality that poverty tends to persist between generations". Is it? To me it's intuitively obvious and I can't think of any real person who would disagree? I can't even conceive of a different way this could work. Reducing the correlation to zero would require basically removing money's functional utility.

Being able to work to increase your own wealth isn't really controversial. In fact most Americans over-estimate the amount of economic mobility that we have, which is probably what the article is referring to. And rich families tend to have their wealth eroded in just 2-3 generations. https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/generational-wealth%3A-why-d...

Until dynasties with extremely large Southh Dakota in-perputuity Trusts make it almost impossible for wealth to erode in 2-3 generations or even longer. There's a good reason why trusts were restricted to ~100 years but now the world has lost that legal fight. In 100, 150 years, just how much power will the trust holders of these perpetual trusts have over the rest of society?

Re: Once poor, always poor?

#38

Post by b9a2cab5 »

amcoastal wrote: post #35
b9a2cab5 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In fact most Americans over-estimate the amount of economic mobility that we have Your link seems to say otherwise. If economic mobility were low then most rich families would not see their wealth meaningfully eroded for generations. This was the case in feudal Europe and many ancient empires like Rome. The fact that most families lose wealth in 3 generations due to mismanagement implies someone else is gaining tha…

You think the people gaining the wealth that some rich families are losing are people that need high economic mobility and not just other rich people?

How does the fact that 70% of wealthy families lose their wealth within 3 generations gel with wealth being lost to other rich people? That doesn't logically make sense. If that was the case then there would slowly be ever fewer rich people who become ever richer. But if you look at the richest people in the world that isn't the case.

Re: Once poor, always poor?

#39

Post by krapp »

AlexTWithBeard wrote: post #34
ivanmontillam wrote: post #24

It's true that culture can make you poor, by the means of setting your mindset. I've seen people in the towns of South America (i.e. not the main cities) whose family traditions set them on a path of "wait to be given" instead of "go and get it" mentality. Of course, this never materializes, and the person lives their life impoverished. Money is such a taboo in these families, that you end up thinking it's dirty unti…

> if you're a teenage girl, depending on your culture, your family seems to be peer pressuring you to be a mother Ironically, societies that do not steer girls to parenthood are subject to extinction. I'm not saying it's good or bad. It's just the law of nature.

>Ironically, societies that do not steer girls to parenthood are subject to extinction.

Which societies have gone extinct due to this?

Re: Once poor, always poor?

#40

Post by amcoastal »

AlexTWithBeard wrote: post #32
netizen-936824 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about kids in poverty in the US? Are you sure they're getting a good education? Are they hungry when they go to school? How hard is it to learn when you don't have good nutrition?

They are getting a decent education. In addition, they get for free perfect knowledge of English, work eligibility in the US and an extensive network of friends and relatives. Something that many immigrants can only dream about.

Educations are relative. Sure the inner city US education is good compared to Nigeria, but they arent going to be competing with Nigerians for college admissions and jobs. They will be competing with other Americans who got vastly superior free educations.
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