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Once poor, always poor?
21–30 of 358 posts
Re: Once poor, always poor?
#22"It is a sad and little-known reality that poverty tends to persist between generations". Is it? To me it's intuitively obvious and I can't think of any real person who would disagree? I can't even conceive of a different way this could work. Reducing the correlation to zero would require basically removing money's functional utility.
Being able to work to increase your own wealth isn't really controversial. In fact most Americans over-estimate the amount of economic mobility that we have, which is probably what the article is referring to. And rich families tend to have their wealth eroded in just 2-3 generations. https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/generational-wealth%3A-why-d...
> In fact most Americans over-estimate the amount of economic mobility that we have
Your link seems to say otherwise. If economic mobility were low then most rich families would not see their wealth meaningfully eroded for generations. This was the case in feudal Europe and many ancient empires like Rome. The fact that most families lose wealth in 3 generations due to mismanagement implies someone else is gaining that lost wealth - ergo economic mobility should be high.
Personally I feel the economic mobility afforded by high paying jobs and widespread capital in the US is unmatched. I started making more money than my parents by my junior year in college and genuinely feel like I have a non-zero chance at hitting 25 million USD net worth during my life. I have friends who have gotten millions of dollars in startup funding and have 10+ paid employees. You can't say the same if you live in Europe.
Re: Once poor, always poor?
#23Given the generally accepted ideal of equality in the rich and educated world it strikes me as crazy that we continue to work hard to keep refugees out of our islands of wealth instead of structurally working on improving the chances of all people on earth. We seem to just turn a blind eye to this huge inequality or even increase and abuse it when it suits us. For example: Why don't we apply our minimum wage laws to the cheap foreign labor we depend on for our cheap products? Why don't we spend a significant part of our riches on improving education across the world? The same goes for universal food and health care. Why do we apparently feel that people who happen to be born somewhere else are inherently less valuable than us? Imagine what we could achieve if we would maximize the chances given to all people. We would all become richer from it together in the long run. But somehow even just thinking about something like this mostly just makes others laugh or at best uncomfortably chuckle at such a silly idealist.
Re: Once poor, always poor?
#24It's true that culture can make you poor, by the means of setting your mindset.
I've seen people in the towns of South America (i.e. not the main cities) whose family traditions set them on a path of "wait to be given" instead of "go and get it" mentality. Of course, this never materializes, and the person lives their life impoverished.
Money is such a taboo in these families, that you end up thinking it's dirty until it's engraved in your subconscious. You don't even think about these exact words anymore.
If money is not within your first 3 priorities at life and you happen to have victim mindset, be ready to starve.
Also, if you're a teenage girl, depending on your culture, your family seems to be peer pressuring you to be a mother, because that's the only source of life meaning they know. Breaking such a mold will take a toll on your family acceptance, for which you'll need to grow a thick skin.
Re: Once poor, always poor?
#25Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is money really the issue? In many places, everybody gets a free education, and even university is free. So everybody could simply become a doctor or a lawyer and expect an income above the poverty line - at least if money was the only issue.
That would assume the free education people get is equivalent across income levels, which is a hard thing to do in the best of circumstances. Even independent of educational quality, there is a world of difference between a school's ability to teach a well fed, comfortable child and a child whose only meal of the day is the free school lunch. Similarly, a rich child can afford to do unpaid internships on summer break…
The idea that education (in terms of knowledge and skill acquisition) is zero sum is wrong. Educational equality starts with parents giving a shit about their kids' education. Why do you think Asians overachieve on every benchmark we have? Could it possibly be because there are cultural factors that motivate parents to care very strongly about their childrens' education?
America spends the most in the world per capita on our schools and has terrible results. It's clear that tossing more money into a black hole won't fix the problem.
Anecdotally, in high school I never heard any white/Latino/black friend joke about getting yelled at if they got a B.
> unpaid internships
You might want to take a look at levels.fyi. Internship salaries are higher than a lot of full time jobs nowadays.
Re: Once poor, always poor?
#26So what does this say about the intergenerational poverty in the US?
Not much, the main problem is that the kids aren't getting basic education. Every kid in developed nations has access to free education and parents aren't allowed to make their kids work to feed the home instead of going to schools. In Nigeria kids often don't have access to free education, and even when they do parents often prefer having their kids work to bring home money over making them go to school.
What about kids in poverty in the US? Are you sure they're getting a good education? Are they hungry when they go to school? How hard is it to learn when you don't have good nutrition?
Re: Once poor, always poor?
#27Given the generally accepted ideal of equality in the rich and educated world it strikes me as crazy that we continue to work hard to keep refugees out of our islands of wealth instead of structurally working on improving the chances of all people on earth. We seem to just turn a blind eye to this huge inequality or even increase and abuse it when it suits us. For example: Why don't we apply our minimum wage laws to…
Because we can't afford to do that, and if we tried, all that would happen is our own standard of living would go down the toilet.
Re: Once poor, always poor?
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
Being able to work to increase your own wealth isn't really controversial. In fact most Americans over-estimate the amount of economic mobility that we have, which is probably what the article is referring to. And rich families tend to have their wealth eroded in just 2-3 generations. https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/generational-wealth%3A-why-d...
> In fact most Americans over-estimate the amount of economic mobility that we have Your link seems to say otherwise. If economic mobility were low then most rich families would not see their wealth meaningfully eroded for generations. This was the case in feudal Europe and many ancient empires like Rome. The fact that most families lose wealth in 3 generations due to mismanagement implies someone else is gaining tha…
Here's one source for the over-estimation thing https://www.realclearscience.com/journal_club/2015/11/13/ame...
Re: Once poor, always poor?
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is money really the issue? In many places, everybody gets a free education, and even university is free. So everybody could simply become a doctor or a lawyer and expect an income above the poverty line - at least if money was the only issue.
That would assume the free education people get is equivalent across income levels, which is a hard thing to do in the best of circumstances. Even independent of educational quality, there is a world of difference between a school's ability to teach a well fed, comfortable child and a child whose only meal of the day is the free school lunch. Similarly, a rich child can afford to do unpaid internships on summer break…
In my country the differences beteren universities (and schools) are not very big. It seems very unlikely that more money could buy a significantly better education. Nobody is starving, either.
Re: Once poor, always poor?
#30Given the generally accepted ideal of equality in the rich and educated world it strikes me as crazy that we continue to work hard to keep refugees out of our islands of wealth instead of structurally working on improving the chances of all people on earth. We seem to just turn a blind eye to this huge inequality or even increase and abuse it when it suits us. For example: Why don't we apply our minimum wage laws to…
Not to burst the bubble, but there's a reason why Elon Musk asked for a breakdown of costs for such a plan a few weeks ago.
Throwing money at foundations doesn't automagically solves the problem.
Sometimes it happens that if you donate clothes to some African communities, corruption will take over and your donation will not reach the hands of those in most need. The clothes will instead be sold into the illegal markets, profitting feudal lords.
There's not a lack of intention to help, rather it's the structure, the status quo of things that de-incentivizes such help.