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Risk of myocarditis following sequential COVID-19 vaccinations by age and sex [pdf]

medrxiv.org

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Re: Risk of myocarditis following sequential COVID-19 vaccinations by age and sex [pdf]

#91

Post by bjtitus »

yonaguska wrote: post #69
unityByFreedom wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

> given the rate of deaths are 10-20x worse than the worst flu years. I have a hard time accepting this premise. Mostly because the flu was somehow eradicated at the outset of mass covid testing, many of the covid tests did not distinguish between the flu and covid. Furthermore, I believe that we actually responded to covid in a way that caused excess covid deaths by over counting deaths and actively suppressing unpa…

> the flu was somehow eradicated at the outset of mass covid testing, many of the covid tests did not distinguish between the flu and covid.

What do you mean when you say that tests did not distinguish between COVID and the flu? Are you referring to simultaneous infection? I'm not aware of any PCR or antigen tests for COVID which would produce positive results for flu patients. Nor any antigen or rapid molecular assays for the flu which would produce positives for COVID patients.

Seems much more reasonable that social distancing and masking significantly reduced flu transmission.

Re: Risk of myocarditis following sequential COVID-19 vaccinations by age and sex [pdf]

#92

Post by spurgu »

roenxi wrote: post #72
coolso wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This paper essentially argues that the risk of myocarditis in under-40 males getting 2 shots is greater (perhaps much greater) than the risk of getting it from COVID. There have been similar studies before, but none (that I saw) broken down by age and sex like this. This is especially fascinating to me because for months I noticed that whenever I or anyone else would bring up the fear of myocarditis from the vax (w…

They might still be right; this is only a pre-print, only focused on one specific aspect of COVID and the effect size is small. But if they are wrong, the most likely explanation is they misunderstood something and were just wrong. Ironically, as is well known but bears repeating, the vocal "follow the science" types tend more to be believers in authority figures than people who care what science says. They aren't es…

> They might still be right; this is only a pre-print, only focused on one specific aspect of COVID and the effect size is small.

There was a study of Canadian data (Ontario) recently as well which interestingly showed large differences depending on the combo (Pfizer/Pfizer, Pfizer/Moderna, Moderna/Moderna, Moderna/Pfizer) of 1st and 2nd shot: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.02.21267156v...

Re: Risk of myocarditis following sequential COVID-19 vaccinations by age and sex [pdf]

#93

Post by sudosysgen »

coolso wrote: post #57
simonsarris wrote: post #2

This paper essentially argues that the risk of myocarditis in under-40 males getting 2 shots is greater (perhaps much greater) than the risk of getting it from COVID. There have been similar studies before, but none (that I saw) broken down by age and sex like this. It reads: > Despite more myocarditis events occurring in older persons, the risk following COVID-19 vaccination was largely restricted to younger males a…

> This paper essentially argues that the risk of myocarditis in under-40 males getting 2 shots is greater (perhaps much greater) than the risk of getting it from COVID. There have been similar studies before, but none (that I saw) broken down by age and sex like this. This is especially fascinating to me because for months I noticed that whenever I or anyone else would bring up the fear of myocarditis from the vax (w…

This preprint agrees that the risk of myocarditis is significantly higher, except if you are

a. A male b. Under 40 years old c. Took the Moderna vaccine

So the statement that COVID has a higher risk of myocarditis is still true.

The media and those people got their information from existing data. This data was correct for the original question. However it wasn't delineated by age and by vaccine, and it's only after that you can make another argument.

So yes, the media was right, not the antivaxxers. There is no shenanigans. Unless you have a source that predates this paper saying that the Moderna vaccine has a higher risk of myocarditis specifically for men under 40 that happens to be antivaxx for completely unrelated reasons as myocarditis risk from the vaccine is much lesser than the overall risk from COVID for any demographic.

Re: Risk of myocarditis following sequential COVID-19 vaccinations by age and sex [pdf]

#94

Post by spurgu »

michaelmrose wrote: post #73
coolso wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This paper essentially argues that the risk of myocarditis in under-40 males getting 2 shots is greater (perhaps much greater) than the risk of getting it from COVID. There have been similar studies before, but none (that I saw) broken down by age and sex like this. This is especially fascinating to me because for months I noticed that whenever I or anyone else would bring up the fear of myocarditis from the vax (w…

Quoted post unavailable.

> This is not peer reviewed

With Covid moving so fast it's not really feasible to rely on peer-reviewed data alone. Once a paper gets reviewed things have usually changed (like new variants). Pre-prints are very necessary because of this.

Of course it's not optimal, you either have unreliable or outdated data.

Re: Risk of myocarditis following sequential COVID-19 vaccinations by age and sex [pdf]

#95

Post by Izkata »

sudosysgen wrote: post #87
mrhands556 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s pretty evident at this point it doesn’t prevent symptomatic infection. Death rate on both is close to 0. My point is if the vaccine doesn’t prevent infection (protecting other people) the vaccine risk vs reward is negligible for this age group. It should be purely up to the person to make their own decision. Not anyone else’s. Treat it like the flu shot. I was vaccinated when I saw 90% at preventing infections,…

3 doses of pfizer seen to have more thab 75% protection against even Omicron. It was 90% before mutations for two doses The death rate on both are very low but much higher for the virus. However, the risk of hospitalization is significant with the virus, and much, much higher than with the vaccine. I don't want to be hospitalized. That's a very bad time. The people that may die because I took up a hospital spot proba…

> The flu doesn't threaten to collapse the healthcare system without vaccines.

Yeah it does, even with vaccines...

(2014) https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/flu-patients-fill-north-te...

(2015) https://abcnews.go.com/Health/flu-closes-schools-flusters-ho...

(2016) https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/mar/10/nhs-hospital...

(2017) https://www.france24.com/en/20170111-french-hospitals-cancel...

(2018) https://time.com/5107984/hospitals-handling-burden-flu-patie...

It's a pretty consistent pattern: Every flu season, hospitals are overwhelmed by the flu. Those links are just from date-range searches and copying the first result (hence bouncing around countries); each year had plenty more from other countries.

Re: Risk of myocarditis following sequential COVID-19 vaccinations by age and sex [pdf]

#96

Post by sudosysgen »

yonaguska wrote: post #69
unityByFreedom wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

> given the rate of deaths are 10-20x worse than the worst flu years. I have a hard time accepting this premise. Mostly because the flu was somehow eradicated at the outset of mass covid testing, many of the covid tests did not distinguish between the flu and covid. Furthermore, I believe that we actually responded to covid in a way that caused excess covid deaths by over counting deaths and actively suppressing unpa…

The flu has a basic reproductive rate much lower than the coronavirus. By the time mass covid testing started and flu season came, the public health measures were so severe one would expect them to basically eradicate the flu, and they were keeping COVID close to the rate of eradication, but were relaxed every time before that happened.

So yes, that is perfectly normal and expected.

Re: Risk of myocarditis following sequential COVID-19 vaccinations by age and sex [pdf]

#97

Post by spurgu »

buddhistdude wrote: post #89
jMyles wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is r/lockdownskepticism also skeptical of vaccination? It's a very heterogenous sub, but I don't think you'll find the kind of anti-vax thinking that suggests that, eg, childhood vaccination is unhelpful to a society, if that's what you're asking. If you are asking more strictly about sentiment toward the currently available SARS-CoV-2 vaccines, I think that by and large we think they're a marvel of engineering, bu…

Is there a consensus of how to deal with the covid situation between the people of this sub? If yes, what would that be?

Probably https://gbdeclaration.org/

Re: Risk of myocarditis following sequential COVID-19 vaccinations by age and sex [pdf]

#98

Post by cblconfederate »

I wish these papers were printed in journals that publish the reviewer comments. In fact i think it should be a requirement for all journals. Unfortunately all online commentary ends up becoming a pissing contest where everyone is trying to outwit each other instead of attacking the paper itself from all angles.

Re: Risk of myocarditis following sequential COVID-19 vaccinations by age and sex [pdf]

#99

Post by darkerside »

sudosysgen wrote: post #93
coolso wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This paper essentially argues that the risk of myocarditis in under-40 males getting 2 shots is greater (perhaps much greater) than the risk of getting it from COVID. There have been similar studies before, but none (that I saw) broken down by age and sex like this. This is especially fascinating to me because for months I noticed that whenever I or anyone else would bring up the fear of myocarditis from the vax (w…

This preprint agrees that the risk of myocarditis is significantly higher, except if you are a. A male b. Under 40 years old c. Took the Moderna vaccine So the statement that COVID has a higher risk of myocarditis is still true. The media and those people got their information from existing data. This data was correct for the original question. However it wasn't delineated by age and by vaccine, and it's only after t…

So, he just wasn't right yet? ...

Re: Risk of myocarditis following sequential COVID-19 vaccinations by age and sex [pdf]

#100

Post by spurgu »

nradov wrote: post #24
jagged-chisel wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you define 'aspiration' in this case? The link is rather dense to the layperson.

Aspiration is pulling back the syringe plunger prior to injection to ensure the needle tip is in the correct tissue and not in a vein. This isn't typically done for COVID-19 vaccinations, and there is some controversy in medical circles about whether this should be a standard procedure. https://f1000research.com/articles/3-157/v3

I saw a statistic of Denmark (who are aspirating) vs Norway (who aren't), and vaccine complications[0] were something like 1 in 25.000 in Denmark vs 1 in 15.000 in Norway[1], so there was a clear difference.

[0] Or myocarditis specifically?

[1] Don't quote me on these numbers, they are ballpark numbers from my memory

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