You block ads in your browser, why not in your city? • Hacker News Board

Re: You block ads in your browser, why not in your city?

#341

Post by cataphract » Sun, Dec 26, 2021, 5:33 PM UTC

blackhaz wrote: post #234

DarylZero wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can I just paint over it, or rip it apart? That's what Banksy does and says "yes" to. > No, that would be vandalism. So what? That's just a word. > As much as I hate ads, THEY have re-arranged the world by paying for it in a free market, and we must respect that. LOL, but why "must we"? You have no reasoning, no justification.

It's not just a word, it's a law, from UK's Criminal Damage Act 1971: "A person who without lawful excuse destroys or damages any property belonging to another intending to destroy or damage any such property or being reckless as to whether any such property would be destroyed or damaged shall be guilty of an offence." But whether we should change that law is probably an off-topic here. All I am saying is that we mus…

If you're saying that everyone should/must follow the law in all circumstances, that's an extreme position few people would agree with. This would mean inform on Jews to the Nazis or returning slaves to their owners under the Fugitives Slaves Act, to take an example from a democracy. That's even without considering that many laws are somewhat indeterminate, internally inconsistent or at odds with other laws.

If you're saying that there is an a priori moral presumption that laws should be followed, maybe because they represent (possibly) some sort of societal consensus, than that is a closer question, but it doesn't resolve the question of whether the legal rights of the advertisers ought to, in a moral sense, be respected.

Note though that even the US judiciary doesn't make much of a legal mandate with no penalties attached (see the last Obamacare case to reach SCOTUS).

Re: You block ads in your browser, why not in your city?

#342

Post by SyzygistSix » Sun, Dec 26, 2021, 5:34 PM UTC

n0n0n4t0r wrote: post #35

I live in the area of Grenoble, a french city leaded by ecologists than banned ads several years ago (since 2014 if I'm correct). This is a pleasure, or, more precisely, I feel overwhelmed when I exit my city and am surrounded by so many ads! https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.france24.com/en/20141124-fr...

Non-AMP link:

https://www.france24.com/en/20141124-french-city-grenoble-ba...

Re: You block ads in your browser, why not in your city?

#343

Post by sideshowb » Sun, Dec 26, 2021, 5:41 PM UTC

blackhaz wrote: post #187

Miner49er wrote: post #116

Reminds me of this Banksy quote: People are taking the piss out of you everyday. They butt into your life, take a cheap shot at you and then disappear. They leer at you from tall buildings and make you feel small. They make flippant comments from buses that imply you’re not sexy enough and that all the fun is happening somewhere else. They are on TV making your girlfriend feel inadequate. They have access to the most…

Fuck that indeed. Very strong message here, and I love it. I wish I could take all those ads and shove them into their asses. But what is being suggested here? What's mine to take? If I see an ad, can I reuse the artwork? No. If I see a car, I can't just copy it's design. Can I just paint over it, or rip it apart? No, that would be vandalism. As much as I hate ads, THEY have re-arranged the world by paying for it in…

Well maybe don't take legal advice from a graffiti artist? shrug

Re: You block ads in your browser, why not in your city?

#344

Post by perryizgr8 » Sun, Dec 26, 2021, 5:43 PM UTC

captn3m0 wrote: post #154

Bangalore did this for the last 2 years, albeit for a different reason. BBMP (the civic body) took down thousands of billboards and hoardings over weeks, and while there were violations, Bangalore was (for the last 2 years or so) a city with adblock. Unfortunately, the ban was struck down by the court this year in August, so we're going back. For what it's worth, the ban was called out as great by various citizen act…

I live in bangalore. I found the ad ban extremely irritating, because they took down the billboards, but left torn cloth or plastic sheets in place! It even empty boards. It was looking so ugly everywhere. I'd rather see the ads. At least advertisers try to make their billboards look aesthetically pleasing. I do agree that it becomes excessive in some places. I feel that public (taxpayer funded) infrastructure should not have any ads.

Re: You block ads in your browser, why not in your city?

#345

Post by perryizgr8 » Sun, Dec 26, 2021, 5:45 PM UTC

luma wrote: post #99

stevehawk wrote: post #91

I think this will be a whole new issue when AR becomes standard. In fact, it's the whole reason I don't want AR. I just see ads for days coming out of it. Everyone putting little ad starting QR codes (or whatever they settle on) everywhere so every time I turn my head there's a gecko on a coffee table in the random store I'm in trying to sell my car insurance.

Depends on who owns that AR. If I own it, I could replace all the car insurance ads on the road with cute geckos doing adorable things.

> If I own it

That's a big if. Looking at the current situation I predict Apple/Meta/Google will own "your" AR. Just like with smartphones.

Re: You block ads in your browser, why not in your city?

#346

Post by ouid » Sun, Dec 26, 2021, 5:47 PM UTC

blackhaz wrote: post #187

Miner49er wrote: post #116

Reminds me of this Banksy quote: People are taking the piss out of you everyday. They butt into your life, take a cheap shot at you and then disappear. They leer at you from tall buildings and make you feel small. They make flippant comments from buses that imply you’re not sexy enough and that all the fun is happening somewhere else. They are on TV making your girlfriend feel inadequate. They have access to the most…

Fuck that indeed. Very strong message here, and I love it. I wish I could take all those ads and shove them into their asses. But what is being suggested here? What's mine to take? If I see an ad, can I reuse the artwork? No. If I see a car, I can't just copy it's design. Can I just paint over it, or rip it apart? No, that would be vandalism. As much as I hate ads, THEY have re-arranged the world by paying for it in…

Banksy is talking about moral right, not legal right. This is obvious unless you're being intentionally dense. He is saying that you have cosmic permission to perform acts of vandalism to advertisements. As long as you don't get caught, you're alright with your chosen deity or whatever.

It's a pretty strong philosophical argument in that direction, in my opinion.

If you're disagreeing with that point, you should be explicit. You're arguing that these companies are paying for the advertising, but they aren't paying you to throw the rocks at your head, they're paying the building from which they obtain their vantage point. I don't think that actually qualifies as "paying for it", morally.

Re: You block ads in your browser, why not in your city?

#347

Post by Timwi » Sun, Dec 26, 2021, 5:48 PM UTC

shukantpal wrote: post #272

DarylZero wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does it mean to say "we must respect the law"? Banksy demonstrates that this is not true. You only need to avoid law enforcement. It seems to me, of course I have no way of knowing, but it SEEMS to me that you are NOT EVEN AWARE that you're not making arguments.

We don't have to treat each other as humans, either, by that logic.

Correct. I don't treat people as humans out of logic. I do it out of compassion and empathy.

I do not have compassion or empathy for ads.

Re: You block ads in your browser, why not in your city?

#348

Post by bennysomething » Sun, Dec 26, 2021, 5:48 PM UTC

Fuck my city deciding what adverts I see. That's called censorship.

Want something like that check out drab soviet era cities were advertising was banned.

Banksy certainly seems to have thin skin if he gets hurt feelings over adverts. Fuck that too, I'm responsible for my own feelings.

Re: You block ads in your browser, why not in your city?

#349

Post by ipaddr » Sun, Dec 26, 2021, 5:49 PM UTC

shukantpal wrote: post #325

DarylZero wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no "logic" at all here. All I did was point out how the other person didn't even make an argument. Nor did you. You just appeal to some popular notion that everyone already agrees with ("treat humans like humans"). Then you suggest this is the same as the other thing, again giving no reason. Maybe you really can give reason to someone, who abuses people, not to do it. To treat humans as humans. But you would…

You are making an argument here, that the other person didn't make an argument; that means you were applying logic. Your logic is that there's nothing stopping you from breaking societal norms and doing whatever you have the physical capability to do. Therefore, you can destroy property you don't like (advertisements). You can extend that logic to say that you "can" abuse humans. But your logic totally misses societa…

Social norms can be accepting of such activities if you surround yourself with a like minded group.

Living within whatever social norms exist is common but progressives and activists try to break the social norm. Taboos are real and get broken everyday.. cousins date, 70 year old women and getting together with 20 year olds, there are mothers who hate their kids.

Each social rule broken can have punishments.. wearing white after labor day can get you not invited to a social event. But that doesn't mean you should imprison yourself trying to live within other people's rules. Drawing a funny face on an ad has a low punishment rate, low chance of being cast out of society vs stabbing someone randomly. You can reject some rules and follow others. It has always been your choice.

Re: You block ads in your browser, why not in your city?

#350

Post by losteric » Sun, Dec 26, 2021, 5:52 PM UTC

blackhaz wrote: post #187

Miner49er wrote: post #116

Reminds me of this Banksy quote: People are taking the piss out of you everyday. They butt into your life, take a cheap shot at you and then disappear. They leer at you from tall buildings and make you feel small. They make flippant comments from buses that imply you’re not sexy enough and that all the fun is happening somewhere else. They are on TV making your girlfriend feel inadequate. They have access to the most…

Fuck that indeed. Very strong message here, and I love it. I wish I could take all those ads and shove them into their asses. But what is being suggested here? What's mine to take? If I see an ad, can I reuse the artwork? No. If I see a car, I can't just copy it's design. Can I just paint over it, or rip it apart? No, that would be vandalism. As much as I hate ads, THEY have re-arranged the world by paying for it in…

Breaking laws comes with punishments but we are still free to break laws. In some situations, there may even be an ethical imperative to break the law.