Shrooms: What You Need to Know • Hacker News Board

Re: Shrooms: What You Need to Know

#141

Post by naasking » Sun, Dec 26, 2021, 3:02 AM UTC

crawfordcomeaux wrote: post #23

theli0nheart wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not everyone of course, but even a large number of psychedelic researchers who were supposedly doing it the “right way” were still walking away with bizarre and irrational beliefs: https://slatestarcodex.com/2016/04/28/why-were-early-psyched ... That article gives examples of folks who most definitely were not using psychedelics safety. Timothy Leary is famous for his controversial experiments. Moreover, LSD and mu…

Also, there's this from the link: "The third possibility is the one that really intrigues me. A 2011 study found that a single dose of psilocybin could permanently increase the personality dimension of Openness To Experience. I’m emphasizing that because personality is otherwise pretty stable after adulthood; nothing should be able to do this." The fact is everything IS able to do this and it's up to the person to ch…

> The idea that personality is a stable feature after adulthood is simply a cultural phenomena

No it's not. Twin studies show that personality is largely genetically determined, ie. twins that were separated at birth and raised separately largely have the same personalities, levels of happiness and life satisfaction, and even similar jobs and spouses. People tend to overestimate environmental influences.

Re: Shrooms: What You Need to Know

#142

Post by PragmaticPulp » Sun, Dec 26, 2021, 3:03 AM UTC

coffeemig wrote: post #99

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #8

Keep in mind that “harm reduction” material shouldn’t be interpreted as a guide to avoiding all potential negative consequences. When it comes to psychedelics, the pendulum of popular opinion has swung from an extreme of “extremely bad for you” to “actually good for you” but neither extreme is good, IMO. It’s worth reading some of the material about how psychedelic users are weirdly prone to picking up strange belief…

Responses to your comment are contrary, but my anecdata: Just after I moved away from a particular social scene, a bunch of close friends in it got very into psychedelics. Weekly usage or more frequent, all different kinds of che,ical (‘pure’ lsd, street acid, shrooms, DMT, RCs, etc.) Many of them did adopt some real wacky beliefs that they have held onto many years past their use. ‘Radicality’ of belief seemed propo…

> Responses to your comment are contrary

Saying anything that isn't 100% positive about psychedelics on the internet tends to bring out a lot of psychedelic fans who vehemently disagree. Any time I comment about psychedelics online without a unilaterally glowing endorsement, my comments' score bounces up and down as much as any other controversial topic.

It's fascinating to see even the counter arguments here tap into exactly the sort of mystical beliefs I was talking about: Questioning reality, suggesting that maybe psychedelic induced experiences are revealing an alternate reality and so on. A common theme is a belief that psychedelic users are seeing the real reality through their drug use, which is supposedly unavailable to those of us who aren't inducing these artificial altered states with drugs.

> But I’m real damn certain that the ‘enlightenment’ is basically being high. Drunk on a false sense of peace with the universe which exists only as a malfunction in your brain’s wiring. Beware people who tout those effects. They are out of touch with reality.

Well said. I haven't known anyone to go as deep as your friends, but I have known a few people who started to believe that their drug-induced states were something more than just a drug-induced feeling. It's scary to watch someone lose grip with the difference.

It's also scary to read all of the deadly serious comments here on HN suggesting such clearly false beliefs might be true.

> I have read there is clinical potential to help PTSD sufferers. I’m not denying this. But 99% of usage is not happening is carefully, scientifically studied and controlled situations. Keeping a trip journal is not scientific, even if you have a chem phd.

I've read just about every study on psychedelics and therapy recently. In every* single trial, the psychedelics are part of an extended therapy program involving as many as 20 therapy sessions for every 1 psychedelic session. Anyone taking psychedelics ad-hoc at home and expecting to replicate the study results is not coming close at all.

Re: Shrooms: What You Need to Know

#143

Post by tokumei » Sun, Dec 26, 2021, 3:04 AM UTC

acchow wrote: post #81

tokumei wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exact opposite for me. LSD is nice, but the visuals can be overwhelming. The visuals on mushrooms, for me are more “organic” I guess, and the mental state more natural. I haven’t done either in over a decade, but that’s what I remember. I used to do a heroic dose of mushrooms once a week - the feelings of euphoria once you peek and the subtle visuals were amazing. It’s also possible to go to sleep on mushrooms once y…

There are so many varieties of psychedelic shrooms. Some don’t have strong visuals, some can make you hallucinate far beyond the capabilities of LSD.

Mostly just describing my experiences with normal psilocybin mushrooms.

The visuals were very noticeable for me, but they would mostly enhance whatever it was that I was looking at. Peoples heads would morph and bend (the best way I can describe that is the music video “Drugs” by Ratatat), trees would breath and the branches would look like giant mushrooms, I’d see slight colors and geometry on flat surfaces, my phone would feel like liquid. The body high was also amazing. All of this for me was on a 7.5g dosage.

In contrast with LSD, it would completely change everything that I could see. I woke up once after going to sleep on alcohol/LSD, and it looked like I was in a cartoon, and I continued to trip for another 8 hours.

Re: Shrooms: What You Need to Know

#144

Post by PragmaticPulp » Sun, Dec 26, 2021, 3:07 AM UTC

tyingq wrote: post #14

Never did any type of psychedelics. You don't read much about "death by misadventure" associated with them though. I'm curious about this. Alcohol, for example, is pretty famous for clouding judgement, reducing inhibition, and so on. Such that otherwise rational people drive intoxicated, get into fights, fall asleep in inappropriate places, fall off of and into things, etc. Psychedelics obviously cause you to halluci…

> Psychedelics obviously cause you to hallucinate. So why don't I hear about more accidents? Does they seem to leave your common sense, judgement, etc, in place?

I have a group of friends in the medical field in emergency rooms.

They actually see a lot of people coming through the doors with psychedelic-induced issues, either directly or by injuring themselves.

Higher psychedelic doses tend to be relatively debilitating, though, so it somewhat limits what people can do on them. Sadly this means many of the accidents are more likely to progress to death because the person isn't thinking clearly enough to extract themself from the situation (drowning, house on fire, weather exposure, lost in the woods, etc.)

Re: Shrooms: What You Need to Know

#145

Post by rt_hidden_dude » Sun, Dec 26, 2021, 3:13 AM UTC

criticaltinker wrote: post #126

Nbox9 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Different mushroom species have different quantities of active ingredients. Describing the dry weight of a mushroom is really only a secondary measurement of the active ingredients. Elsewhere on the website they compare 2.4g of mushrooms to about 100ug of LSD. So 1.7g of mushrooms would be equivalent of about 45ug of LSD, and the micro dose range of LSD is 5-25ug. Tripsafe is attempting to describe a light dose, whic…

Good point about the quantity of active ingredients varying by species. It’s worth noting that GP may have been referring to the physical distribution of active ingredients within the mushroom body. The “cap” of a mushroom almost always contains significantly more active ingredients. Thus, 1 gram of stems may yield a significantly different dose than 1 gram of “caps”.

The quantity and relative percentage of psilocybin, psilocin, baeocystin, and other active compounds varies wildly even in a mushroom-to-mushroom comparison from the same grow. This is especially notable in multispore grows, rather than strains isolated on agar over successive generations. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7201054/

Re: Shrooms: What You Need to Know

#146

Post by tayo42 » Sun, Dec 26, 2021, 3:15 AM UTC

hidden_dude wrote: post #108

mmmeff wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look into growing them from uncle Ben’s rice. Doesn’t get easier. Spores can be legally bought online in most states and no special equipment is necessary. Just plan on doing a triple batch as without proper lab equipment, the chance of contamination is higher.

Any place to buy them? I am not too far from Santa Cruz, CA and Oakland CA. I hear it's legal in Santa Cruz.

There's a church in Oakland. It'll come up on Google i forgot the name. They got raided but they're back

Re: Shrooms: What You Need to Know

#147

Post by garbene » Sun, Dec 26, 2021, 4:32 AM UTC

toastercat wrote: post #41

This is a great resource to anyone interested in psychedelics in general. I've only done psychedelics twice in my lifetime, both with the same friend, and both times NOT in ideal scenarios (because we were both tripping without a sober person trip-sitting us). I would like to warn anyone interested that *tripping is risky if you suffer from high anxiety or OCD*. My first trip was an incredible experience, I couldn't…

I haven’t tried shrooms but had a similarly horrifying bad trip on weed brownies at my parents’ place a few years ago. My dad had just gotten into baking them and insisted I have two (BIG mistake) and I spent the next 6-or-so hours cycling through panic attacks and hallucinations while absolutely convinced I had murdered my parents earlier that evening.

Gotta say, my ole man knows how to make a potent pot brownie.

Re: Shrooms: What You Need to Know

#148

Post by stevehiehn » Sun, Dec 26, 2021, 4:45 AM UTC

stevehiehn wrote: post #105

Hmm, I worry about the doses listed. 1.6g of potent caps will get you right fucked. If you haven't done them before and are planning on having a couple drinks and socializing etc I recommend no more than 0.5g (for at least 1.5hrs) then re-access from there.

Maybe a more useful contribution is to say that mushroom 'highs' are cumulative. I've been a bit of a casual nibbler for 25 yrs or so. You can always eat a little more but you can't uneat them. So that's all. The quantity/duration of consumption ratio is very significant for a good experience :)

Re: Shrooms: What You Need to Know

#149

Post by acchow » Sun, Dec 26, 2021, 5:58 AM UTC

c54 wrote: post #25

tyingq wrote: post #14

Never did any type of psychedelics. You don't read much about "death by misadventure" associated with them though. I'm curious about this. Alcohol, for example, is pretty famous for clouding judgement, reducing inhibition, and so on. Such that otherwise rational people drive intoxicated, get into fights, fall asleep in inappropriate places, fall off of and into things, etc. Psychedelics obviously cause you to halluci…

The hallucination affected by psychedelics such as mushrooms isn't what you might expect. It's not a fully synthetic kind of "i now see an object that is not actually there". There won't be a floating pink elephant in the middle of the room. Instead the effect at most normal doses (3.5g) is more that the walls and floors seem to take on a slightly ephemeral breathing characteristic. You may see patterns in things of…

> There won't be a floating pink elephant in the middle of the room.

It is possible to take enough shrooms to hallucinate objects which are not there. It's hard to reach this state without losing full sight of everything tho.

Re: Shrooms: What You Need to Know

#150

Post by mattcwilson » Sun, Dec 26, 2021, 2:09 PM UTC

CPLX wrote: post #54

mattcwilson wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “thoughts and feelings imparted by psychedelics aren’t real ...” I mean, in what possible way are they “less real” than thoughts and feelings imparted by any other cause? This is your body, doing the thing in reaponse to a stimulus. This may be an atypical stimulus generating very different than usual responses, but they’re certainly real

Clearly it depends on your definition of real. But it’s not a complicated concept to get. Like a person who is drunk might see double, when in fact there is one object. A person who is on a lot of amphetamines might believe they are being purposely followed when in fact there are no people intentionally following them. Those perceptions are not real, in any commonly understood meaning of the word. It’s easy to unders…

Ok, thanks. Yes, hallucination causes you to see and hear things that aren’t there. That are not real objects or soundwaves.

Respectfully - there is still a bit of a category error in the GP, and a bit of a goalpost move here on your part.

Here’s the whole paragraph: > “ These belief-shifting outcomes aren’t mentioned in harm reduction guides. In many cases, they’re actually celebrated by users with an implicit assumption that all belief changes from psychedelics must be inherently good. I think it’s important to understand that thoughts and feelings imparted by psychedelics aren’t real and may likely be entirely meaningless.”

At a minimum, “what the parent comment meant in that context” refers to experiences that themselves alter one’s general perspective, mood, mindset, state of being, etc after the experience. If you prefer, taken word-as-written the GP is saying every thought you have at all under the influence isn’t “real.”

And reading the rest of the post, GP is concerned with permanent, potentially irreversible change to beliefs and brains.

So, shifting the conversation to hallucinations themselves is a bit of a dodge from the original context.

The other reply comment to yours has a salient point: emotions fall into a more durable category of experience than a hallucination. So, in what sense can any shift of perspective, mood, mindset, state of being, etc. in a person be counted as “real” or “not real?”