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Desmond Tutu, anti-apartheid icon, dies at 90

theguardian.com

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Re: Desmond Tutu, anti-apartheid icon, dies at 90

#21

Post by avoid3d »

thehonest wrote: post #16

Quoted post unavailable.

I disagree with this comment. I don’t want to start a debate, just to give my experience and perspective.

I am a South African, I am white, just for transparency.

In my experience:

White people are still in a position of economic and social power such that the (unjust) assumptions made by an average person during apartheid are still mostly the same.

White people are stereotypically more educated, have more money, connections and are more trustworthy etc.

To say that white people are the subject of reverse racism while making any comparison to apartheid, where people where abducted, tortured, disappeared, forcefully relocated and removed from their land, is simply ignorant.

I make this post not to try and change your mind, but simply to give some representation to an alternate view point.

Re: Desmond Tutu, anti-apartheid icon, dies at 90

#24

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

Jcowell wrote: post #19
throwawaylinux wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

It’s civil disobedience. I’m not sure of how SA works , but in the U.S civil disobedience was regularly used to challenge laws during the 20th century. Going into white only areas and living there, forcing de segregation was one such technique.

Civil disobedience was rife in South Africa in the late 1980s. (1) But not usually friendly, and not usually in Bishopscourt.

https://www.sahistory.org.za/article/state-emergency-1985

Re: Desmond Tutu, anti-apartheid icon, dies at 90

#25

Post by throwawaylinux »

Jcowell wrote: post #19
throwawaylinux wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

It’s civil disobedience. I’m not sure of how SA works , but in the U.S civil disobedience was regularly used to challenge laws during the 20th century. Going into white only areas and living there, forcing de segregation was one such technique.

I get there was a bit of cheek about it, just on the scale of civil disobedience in the country I didn't think "living in a big mansion in the richest neighborhood" would register much of a blip but maybe I'm wrong.

Re: Desmond Tutu, anti-apartheid icon, dies at 90

#27

Post by gattilorenz »

throwawaylinux wrote: post #25
Jcowell wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s civil disobedience. I’m not sure of how SA works , but in the U.S civil disobedience was regularly used to challenge laws during the 20th century. Going into white only areas and living there, forcing de segregation was one such technique.

I get there was a bit of cheek about it, just on the scale of civil disobedience in the country I didn't think "living in a big mansion in the richest neighborhood" would register much of a blip but maybe I'm wrong.

You can dismiss almost anything with that. "I didn't think sitting down on the bus would register much of a blip."

The fact that we know about it means that it did register.

Re: Desmond Tutu, anti-apartheid icon, dies at 90

#28

Post by ragtagtag »

throwawaylinux wrote: post #15
ragtagtag wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Without seeking exemption from the law" is the key phrase. He refused to respect a discriminatory law, and, by living there, was effectively daring the Apartheid government to arrest a sitting archbishop.

Quoted post unavailable.

I think there are two elements at play.

Consider a person of colour living in the eponymous mansion of the city's wealthiest neighborhood.

For a racist government, it's a symbol of defiance.

For other people of colour, who have been told by the government their whole lives that they are worthless, good only for manual labour -- one of their own is living in the oldest mansion in the fanciest neighborhood in town. It's an affirmation of their worth.

As a symbol, his place of residence had great power.

Re: Desmond Tutu, anti-apartheid icon, dies at 90

#29

Post by throwawaylinux »

gattilorenz wrote: post #27
throwawaylinux wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get there was a bit of cheek about it, just on the scale of civil disobedience in the country I didn't think "living in a big mansion in the richest neighborhood" would register much of a blip but maybe I'm wrong.

You can dismiss almost anything with that. "I didn't think sitting down on the bus would register much of a blip." The fact that we know about it means that it did register.

That's a non sequitur. I know about lots of things that were not civil disobedience.

Re: Desmond Tutu, anti-apartheid icon, dies at 90

#30

Post by frereubu »

throwawaylinux wrote: post #25
Jcowell wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s civil disobedience. I’m not sure of how SA works , but in the U.S civil disobedience was regularly used to challenge laws during the 20th century. Going into white only areas and living there, forcing de segregation was one such technique.

I get there was a bit of cheek about it, just on the scale of civil disobedience in the country I didn't think "living in a big mansion in the richest neighborhood" would register much of a blip but maybe I'm wrong.

Clearly he was in a more privileged position than a random person from a black township, who would have been swiftly packed into the back of a Land Rover and dealt with extremely harshly. Even people with public prominence weren't exempt, as the case of Steve Biko shows. But Tutu was using the little power he had - as an official representative of the church - to challenge the apartheid laws in an obvious way. There were much easier routes he could have taken - challenging the laws with words, but living somewhere that wouldn't provoke the police. I don't know you, but I get the feeling you don't know quite how vicious the apartheid regime was, and the kind of physical risk that this entailed. Because no-one had done it before, he didn't really know what kind of response he was going to get. "Cheek" doesn't really cover it.
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