Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Children develop robust and sustained cross-reactive immunity after Covid

nature.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

271–280 of 285 posts

Re: Children develop robust and sustained cross-reactive immunity after Covid

#271

Post by johnisgood »

kaczordon wrote: post #143
nradov wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, hospitals aren't legally allowed to turn away non vaccinated people due to EMTALA. Also note that there is no 100% reliable way for hospitals to determine a particular patient's vaccination status. https://www.cms.gov/Regulations-and-Guidance/Legislation/EMT...

Regardless of the legality of turning people away the commenter you’re responding to sounds pretty heartless.

Yep. We really need to stop this "us versus them" mentality. This looks like a war between the vaccinated and the unvaccinated, while the "people above" are doing their own greedy thing and laughing at us fighting each other.

I wish I could tell people that:

The vaccine does not prevent transmission as much as you think it does.

You do not spread as easily as you think you do, and you can personally attempt to reduce it even further.

You are vaccinated, and if it is indeed effective and you believe in it, you should not be worried much.

The unvaccinated are people too who probably do not have any malicious intent, and most likely pose little, or no risk to you.

Merry Christmas!

Re: Children develop robust and sustained cross-reactive immunity after Covid

#272

Post by johnchristopher »

josephcsible wrote: post #222
johnchristopher wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if people would be OK with less restrictions, no vaccine mandates but perma n95 in public indoor and outdoor spaces ? Because whether we like it or not the virus is still going to be around and kill people and saturate hospitals. So, to me, the question seems to be: will living with the virus means "we don't treat covid patients anymore, if you get covid, tough luck, you are free to choose to wear a mask if…

> Because whether we like it or not the virus is still going to be around and kill people and saturate hospitals. Still be around and kill people? Sure, but that's true of the seasonal flu, and even the common cold in rare cases. Saturate hospitals? No.

> Still be around and kill people? Sure, but that's true of the seasonal flu,

I wish people would stop comparing it to the flu, it's highly misleading.

1. With restrictions in place covid killed more.

2. One in ten people still experience illness 12 weeks after the infection. Covid gets into the nervous system by crossing the neural-mucosal interface. Way more people that wouldn't have ended up in hospitals with a flu do ended up in hospitals with Covid. Even with vaccines. Long covid is no joke. Etc.

> and even the common cold in rare cases. Saturate hospitals? No.

Hopium and wishful thinking.

Re: Children develop robust and sustained cross-reactive immunity after Covid

#273

Post by johnchristopher »

parkingrift wrote: post #221
johnchristopher wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if people would be OK with less restrictions, no vaccine mandates but perma n95 in public indoor and outdoor spaces ? Because whether we like it or not the virus is still going to be around and kill people and saturate hospitals. So, to me, the question seems to be: will living with the virus means "we don't treat covid patients anymore, if you get covid, tough luck, you are free to choose to wear a mask if…

>I wonder if people would be OK with less restrictions, no vaccine mandates but perma n95 in public indoor and outdoor spaces ? The second and third most populous states in the nation have banned Covid restrictions. I think the answer to your question is… absolutely not.

I think you wanted to say the answer to my question is `yes`.

Re: Children develop robust and sustained cross-reactive immunity after Covid

#274

Post by DanBC »

rsfern wrote: post #72
DanBC wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a more infectious strain of Delta What? Omicron is a more infectious version of Delta. Omicron causes the same number of deaths and hospitalisations and long covid as delta. It just also infects a lot more people more easily, and those people are at low risk and push the CFR down.

As the data becomes more available from South Africa, the UK, and Denmark, it’s starting to look like Omicron is a more infectious version of the wild type, maybe 40% less virulent than Delta, at least in terms of putting people in the hospital. There’s still not enough data to conclude about mortality. The good news is that prior immunity seems to confer a large degree of protection from severe illness still https:/…

https://twitter.com/dgurdasani1/status/1475061938010865665?s...

> Your risk of getting hospitalised with SARS-CoV-2 (any variant) depends on two things? 1. how likely are you to get infected? 2. what is your chance of getting hospitalised once infected

> In simple terms, because omicron can escape immunity from past infections and vaccines, your protection against infection against omicron is vastly lower than with delta. This means risk of 1. is vastly increased- as you're less protected & also v. high background transmission.

Re: Children develop robust and sustained cross-reactive immunity after Covid

#275

Post by johnchristopher »

lamontcg wrote: post #205
johnchristopher wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not sure why we wouldn't be able to go back to normal, There are no path back to normal unless the virus disappears. We have vaccines that work for a limited time, we'll soon have pills@home. It will still not be `back to normal`. > and taking a stance that we never will strikes me as somewhat defeatist. We'll also never have FTL spaceships or teleportation star trek style. > I'm more of an optimist. Having a s…

> We have vaccines that work for a limited time This is flat out FALSE. There are two different possible endpoints for vaccine efficacy. One is efficacy against infection, one is efficacy against severe disease and death. Efficacy against infection is very difficult because it is mediated by circulating neutralizing antibodies. It is just difficult to get sterilizing immunity against a muscosally invading respiratory…

> > We have vaccines that work for a limited time

> This is flat out FALSE.

Allow me to rephrase: We have vaccines that protect us from severe diseases and hospitalizations (what you wrote after and which I mostly agree with) but its efficacy for milder symptoms wane after some months. And mild symptoms that translates into perma brain fog and other conditions is not something I want to take my chance with.

Most likely, if the best case scenario happens, I'd still take they yearly covid shot.

> but hospitalization rates and death rates are plummeting. That is the human humoral immune system working.

Not what's happening in countries around me. UK (17%), France (175%), Germany, Finland are seeing hospitalizations rise up again.

It remains to be seen if this is the last wave and you are right or if it's now the new normal.

Whatever the cause, considering the damages a mild covid can have, this is not a virus you want to wreak havoc on your system too many times in your life. Killer t-cells are fun but you don't want your immune system in perpetual immune response mode.

edit: regarding protection against severe form (we should be talking of consequences rather than form): vaccines had a ~95-97% efficacy. With Omicron, even tough it stays high, it doesn't stay that high. What worries me is that we are talking yearly flu shots but covid will likely require 6 months booster shots if you want to keep riding the vaccine for protection against all form/consequences.

Re: Children develop robust and sustained cross-reactive immunity after Covid

#276

Post by johnchristopher »

lamontcg wrote: post #223
jacquesm wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your naive model of how the immune system works like a key and lock where if you change one of the pins then the vaccine stops working entirely is deeply flawed. That isn't fair on your part. The bit that you picked out is factually correct. It is also correct that the vaccines + previous immunity will give an improved chance at a positive outcome. But it's not the same as it was for the first wave, the vaccines we…

> But it's not the same as it was for the first wave, the vaccines were very specifically developed and tested in that setting and every future mutation had a worse response, due to attenuation due to time and mismatch with the target. Again this is just wrong. If you've been vaccinated then you have B-cells that match Omicron, even though you weren't vaccinated with Omicron's spike. Maybe my analogy didn't work, but…

> The impact of that 2009 pandemic was considerably blunted by human cross reactive T-cell immunity in the older population who had seen the long-lost relative of H1 protein back before 1957. That 50 year old "pre-vaccination" did not wane and was cross reactive after 50 years of mutation and adaptation in pigs, and was still effective enough to protect against severe disease and death.

Wait, didn't the 57's H1N1 strain reappeared unchanged in the 70's and didn't a vaccination campaign happen then ? (I seem to remember it's mostly likely an unintentional lab leak, which would explain it didn't change in 25 years).

Re: Children develop robust and sustained cross-reactive immunity after Covid

#277

Post by johnchristopher »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #240
nradov wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The virus will never disappear. We can go back to normal as soon as people decide to accept the risk. In fact that has already happened in several states.

I think we'll go back to normal when the risk that hospitals will get overwhelmed wanes.

I do believe that too because it seems to be the only and main factor that motivates public authorities decision and plans against covid.

And it frightens me a bit because it shows they do not care about our well-being, public hospitals saturated policy has the nice side effect of not killing us but that's it.

Re: Children develop robust and sustained cross-reactive immunity after Covid

#278

Post by johnchristopher »

lamontcg wrote: post #200
johnchristopher wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Good vaccines + mild severity illness are basically the best case. If it was a common cold or a flu ? Maybe. > “Although COVID-19 has been described as a respiratory syndrome, evidence supports the involvement of multiple organ systems, with fibrosis, and inflammation in the lung, heart, kidneys, central nervous system (CNS), liver, adrenal glands, bone marrow, lymph nodes, and gastrointestinal tract. SARS-CoV-2 in…

We clearly do not have a choice about endemicity. It will be endemic given that it very clearly evolves antigenically to achieve escape from waning neutralizing antibodies and it has animal reservoirs all over the place, including white tailed deer. It was pretty easy to see eradication was off the table in summer of 2020. At this point is kind of fucking stupid to talk about it. Even if you could snap your fingers a…

> The "its just a flu" people were dead wrong in 2020, but very soon they're going to be entirely right. That doesn't fit neatly into the way that we carve up our society into Team Blue / Team Red though so its difficult for a lot of people to understand.

While I do agree (of course) with what you say about how the immune system cope with covid I still do disagree that those people will be right. Covid is still not a flu and unless the next variant loses its ability to wreak havoc on multiple organs it won't ever be like the flu.

I was not much into team blue/team red but last time I said to an antivax in my family that I was still wearing a mask in public transport despite being vaccinated and she told me she wished for me to get covid so I would stop be scared of it so much I decided to drop my empathy level a bit.

Re: Children develop robust and sustained cross-reactive immunity after Covid

#279

Post by throwaway55421 »

ceejayoz wrote: post #265
throwaway55421 wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are conflating the emotion of grief with mental disorders. It's pretty common nowadays, I find it quite strange. My grandfather died when I was younger and it sucked. I still miss him. But I could go to his funeral and hang out with my friends in the bar, go on holiday, study hard at University, etc, employ all of the normal time tested coping mechanisms. Coronavirus restrictions deliberately took and removed alm…

> Coronavirus restrictions deliberately took and removed almost everything it means to be human from people. Can you clarify which restriction regime you're referring to? I've got relatives in Australia, and I live in New York state; both are on the heavier restrictions side, and the idea of describing our lives as having "removed almost everything it means to be human" is baffling to me.

We had a consecutive six months of it being literally illegal to visit family in the UK.

My job was banned by the Government and hasn't recovered.

I have _still_ not been able to practice many of my hobbies because the legal framework has made it impossible to plan forward more than a week or so.

Is it a gulag? No. Is it worth it? Worth what? Coronavirus is a 1% IFR disease, lower with vaccines. Boring.

Re: Children develop robust and sustained cross-reactive immunity after Covid

#280

Post by DanBC »

oh_sigh wrote: post #113
DanBC wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a more infectious strain of Delta What? Omicron is a more infectious version of Delta. Omicron causes the same number of deaths and hospitalisations and long covid as delta. It just also infects a lot more people more easily, and those people are at low risk and push the CFR down.

Omicron isn't a version of Delta.

No post body was provided.
Post reply on HN