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Could housing be cheaper and better if we stop building so many staircases?

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Re: Could housing be cheaper and better if we stop building so many staircases?

#211
post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The standard is "Safety regulations are written in blood." That's short enough and better than indirectly referring to it via a named 'law'.

The regulations are not evidence based, they are outrage based though :/

These things correlate though. Sure, sometimes we get misses like child car seats, but more often than not outrage-induced regulation manages to make things better.

Re: Could housing be cheaper and better if we stop building so many staircases?

#212
post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apartment doors, walls and floors can withstand many hours of continuous burn. 24 stories of Grenfell were engulfed in an hour - the fire bypassed the doors, walls and floors, by going up the outside. > The building would never be on fire The entire building was on fire. 72 people died. > The problem with Grenfell was that building regulations had been violated, at which point, all bets about safety are off. Mistak…

The correct approach is to design for the biggest common mistakes, not for all mistakes ever. We already do this for floods, earthquakes, wind load, etc.

This cladding was common. They’re still trying to remove it from buildings now.

Re: Could housing be cheaper and better if we stop building so many staircases?

#213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want a deep deep dive into how parking has shaped our cities - I would recommend reading about the “high cost of free parking” and “parking minimums”. https://blog.getmyparking.com/2019/07/01/why-parking-minimum...

Right but the cities are already there. We don't have the luxury of redefining the American lifestyle and dependence on cars with a single unit of new housing. There's no benefit for the developer - leaving out parking (aside from the mandate to include it) makes the property less desirable.

The fact that mandates and minimums exist suggests that this is not the case; if parking paid for itself, no mandates would be necessary and developers would already be incentivized to build it by the market. In jurisdictions that have relaxed parking requirements, however, developers generally build less parking after the rules change (and sometimes as little as none). This shouldn't be too surprising: in cities with decent transit, at least some residents don't drive and so don't need the parking, so a market exists for housing without it, and parking is expensive to build, especially if it's underground, which is typical for multifamily residential construction in dense urban areas. Underground parking in the US typically costs ~$50k per space to build.

Re: Could housing be cheaper and better if we stop building so many staircases?

#214
post #104
post #10

A staircase takes up about the plan size of one bedroom. If that's too much, you're probably trying to cram too many people into a building. There's efficiency, and then there's, "more people live in this city than can all fit on the sidewalks." Maybe just don't.

The problem is the 2nd staircase creates the need for a hallway between the staircases. Look at the floor plans in the article. In one you've got units clustered around a staircase landing. In the other you've got a long hallway and 2 staircases with units along the hallway.

Yes and when the fire alarm goes off every family crushes into that tiny space and tries to get down one staircase. Not to mention countless other bad situations. There's qualitative reasons not to maximize this. Build up one more floor, problem solved.

Re: Could housing be cheaper and better if we stop building so many staircases?

#216
Generally the obstacles to cheaper housing are political. For a building of a given footprint and height its normal for people to show up at planning meetings asking if they could maybe have fewer, larger apartments than they intended so that the new building causes less traffic. We have the technology to build buildings pretty high and the capital cost to do so is a small fraction of the reason housing prices are so high in major cities. I'm open to the idea that at the margin a little less safety for a little smaller cost might be a good or bad tradeoff but this isn't a decisive battle.

Re: Could housing be cheaper and better if we stop building so many staircases?

#217
Number of staircases in my country is given by distance from furthest point (max 20m so you need to have 2 staircases if there is corridor longer then 20m). But when the distance is satisfied capacity can by met by dimensions of the particular staircase.

Re: Could housing be cheaper and better if we stop building so many staircases?

#218

The first person I ever saw laid out on the ground during a fire had been sleeping in an apartment building which had only one exit, at one end of the building. The fire-escape stairs on the other end was missing, and the door bolted so it would not open. The fire was raging near the only stairway. It was the only access firemen had. The young kid was dead. "Seattle-based architect Michael Eliason" is a complete idio…

Ah. An anecdote and an ad hominem. The perfectly balanced reasoning cocktail known to mankind. The best way to make policy universally.

Anyhow, funny story regarding dead people after a fire. He jumped out of a balcony. The fire was in his apartment. The firefighters were already at the door. It turns out the dude was off his meds. (Or never on them.) Because no one gives a shit about mental health. But maybe let's mandate bars on balconies so people can't jump out.

Re: Could housing be cheaper and better if we stop building so many staircases?

#219
post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The correct approach is to design for the biggest common mistakes, not for all mistakes ever. We already do this for floods, earthquakes, wind load, etc.

This cladding was common. They’re still trying to remove it from buildings now.

Trying. Because the UK government absolutely does not give even a single fuck. Housing is a shitshow everywhere. (A symptom of completely bonkers politics in general.)

Re: Could housing be cheaper and better if we stop building so many staircases?

#220
post #211
post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The regulations are not evidence based, they are outrage based though :/

These things correlate though. Sure, sometimes we get misses like child car seats, but more often than not outrage-induced regulation manages to make things better.

But that's the point. Outrage based policy itself has a very bad efficacy. All the think of the children shit leads to almost universally bad policy.

Cancer outrage? You get the California meaningless stickers.

Police brutality? Racism? You get polarizing protests and no real change.

Outrage is at best the first step. But it's really the sign of decades (or more) of gridlocked politics.

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