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Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

theguardian.com

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Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

#111

Post by xdennis »

aunty_helen wrote: post #49
chii wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> deportation isn't this what you'd want? deported back to your country? It's not like you could be denied entry at the airport, and deported back to the foreign country...

With deportation you're probably going to spend a few days in prision until they can sort you a flight out. Then as other commenters have mentioned, it's going to have some long lasting consequences. It will make a lot of the countries in the world require you to get a visa before entering (or even transiting), as in apply for a visa, spend 3-4 months dealing with embassies and spending a decent amount of money while…

> It will make a lot of the countries in the world require you to get a visa before entering (or even transiting)

I.e. you'll know what it's like not to have been born in a first world country.

Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

#112

Post by catlikesshrimp »

bobthepanda wrote: post #98
nowherebeen wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This kind of brings the question should this kind of visa scheme exist in the first place during Covid. From my very limited knowledge, these are just pledges, not actual investments. Given a) NZ tiny market, b) high corporate tax rate, and c) isolation as an Oceania island (shipping), would it make sense to invest in NZ right now? My bet is that they expect Covid to end in the next 1-2 years and all these rich peopl…

My understanding of these schemes is that they are generally designed for rich people who accumulated wealth in countries where they might like to have a backup option if their government gets in a particularly seize-y mood. (e.g. China or Russia)

And those cases where the origin of the money is illegal, so it has to be put somewhere else.

BTW, I know Honduras has an investor visa, too.

Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

#113

Post by will4274 »

refurb wrote: post #55
josephcsible wrote: post #39

Investor visas are just a distraction. The fundamental problem is that there's any restriction whatsoever on New Zealand's citizens entering their own country. The MIQ system should be abolished, and anyone who helped create it, or who has had enough power in the country to abolish it but chose to let it continue, should be put in prison for human rights violations (specifically, in the Universal Declaration of Human…

Yup. Even authoritarian Singapore didn’t restrict its citizens from returning. It imposed rules on testing and quarantine, but they were free to jump on the next flight home. Incredible seeing democracies like Australia and NZ tell their own citizens “no, you cant come home”.

> Incredible seeing democracies like Australia

This one always get a chuckle out of me. Australia is the most facist Western power. It barely has a free media because some rich dude bought it all. They wanted an egregious law forcibly drafting their citizens into being spies if they worked for tech companies. They extensively spy on the internet. They censor video games. The list goes on and on.

Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

#114

Post by tjpnz »

parkingrift wrote: post #10

>Immigration New Zealand (INZ) recently granted 32 visas to people who pledged to invest at least $10m locally over three years and another 76 visas to individuals pledging to invest at least $3m, according to the news website Stuff. > With their visas in hand, investors may apply to compete for spots in New Zealand’s congested MIQ system. A stay in MIQ is a prerequisite for entry to the country, which has been large…

>The visa scheme seems to be an enormous benefit to NZ.

This scheme was once touted as a way to jump start the NZ tech sector but it doesn't appear to be having any impact. Those getting the visa might only be in the country a few weeks in a year and their investments are going into companies which haven't done anything innovative in decades. The most scathing part of all is that New Zealand's still a terrible place to build a startup.

Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

#115

Post by InvertedRhodium »

vanusa wrote: post #102
pixel_fcker wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn’t what’s happening. Everyone trying to enter the country has to go through the MIQ system, regardless of whether they’re a citizen, have one of these visas, or any other type of visa.

This isn’t what’s happening. I don't know how you can say that. It's the inevitable result of a system with finite capacity (once capacity is reached).

How would that differ meaningfully from the limited capacity and number of flights to any given location?

Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

#116

Post by andrekandre »

passerby1 wrote: post #51
vanusa wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In almost all countries you can buy citizenship if you're rich. This isn't about simply "buying citizenship". It's about literally bouncing people who are already citizens out (for the duration of the pandemic).

Although controversal, there's no clear way to resolve utilitarian way of seeing this: an investment is required, and sometimes the investment can be good for society by improving a country economy. For sure, the condition is paying taxes, and that is usually a partially satisfied only, as there're almost always a way to avoid tax. (Otherwise what's the reason for a rich one to invest into country at all?)

  > Otherwise what's the reason for a rich one to invest into country at all?
what are they all investing in?

Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

#117

Post by pikelet »

Aerroon wrote: post #63
refurb wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. Even authoritarian Singapore didn’t restrict its citizens from returning. It imposed rules on testing and quarantine, but they were free to jump on the next flight home. Incredible seeing democracies like Australia and NZ tell their own citizens “no, you cant come home”.

> Incredible seeing democracies like Australia and NZ tell their own citizens “no, you cant come home”. To be fair, it's not their first dance with authoritarian measures. Both countries also employ widespread censorship for movies and video games among other things. Perhaps it shouldn't be that unexpected that they would cross the line on this too.

Cross the line? As a kiwi who got stuck in Peru for over 6 months due to the border closure and lack of flights, and had to go through MIQ when I was finally able to return, I'm extremely grateful for the MIQ system. Do I think it could have been handled better? Yes, especially recently as the answer to a lack of MIQ spaces shouldn't have been to make a lottery system it should have been to make more spaces; but overall I feel that NZ's response has been one of the few sane responses in the world and despite what I personally had to go through I'm very proud of that.

Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

#118

Post by josephcsible »

pikelet wrote: post #117
Aerroon wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Incredible seeing democracies like Australia and NZ tell their own citizens “no, you cant come home”. To be fair, it's not their first dance with authoritarian measures. Both countries also employ widespread censorship for movies and video games among other things. Perhaps it shouldn't be that unexpected that they would cross the line on this too.

Cross the line? As a kiwi who got stuck in Peru for over 6 months due to the border closure and lack of flights, and had to go through MIQ when I was finally able to return, I'm extremely grateful for the MIQ system. Do I think it could have been handled better? Yes, especially recently as the answer to a lack of MIQ spaces shouldn't have been to make a lottery system it should have been to make more spaces; but over…

This makes no sense at all. Your life would have been strictly easier if MIQ didn't exist, so why are you grateful for it?

Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

#119

Post by postingawayonhn »

collegeburner wrote: post #72
mattdw wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NZ isn't currently issuing visas outside of a few categories of "special worker in shortage". (In order to citizens and residents a better chance at getting a quarantine spot.) So this introduces a new special exception for the very wealthy.

In the biggest economic slump since the Great Depression maybe it makes sense to consider rich people who invest lots of money into the economy a "specialized worker" since they might play an important role helping recovery.

And that's fair enough but if there are limited spots they should go to existing NZ citizens/residents, and those with the greatest m=need should be prioritised.

Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

#120

Post by postingawayonhn »

InvertedRhodium wrote: post #115
vanusa wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn’t what’s happening. I don't know how you can say that. It's the inevitable result of a system with finite capacity (once capacity is reached).

How would that differ meaningfully from the limited capacity and number of flights to any given location?

Because in the free market airlines provide as many seats are required.
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