Wouldn't it be simpler if you could just pay for N additional spots to be opened by your financing? If MIQ spots are limited due to finances and you can solve that problem that seems like a win-win. If there's an indirectness where the finances go somewhere else and the MIQ pie gets smaller for citizens at the same time, that's obviously going to cause outrage. This seems like one of those rare situations where more direct graft would be better.
Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes
61–70 of 216 posts
Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes
#62Investor visas are just a distraction. The fundamental problem is that there's any restriction whatsoever on New Zealand's citizens entering their own country. The MIQ system should be abolished, and anyone who helped create it, or who has had enough power in the country to abolish it but chose to let it continue, should be put in prison for human rights violations (specifically, in the Universal Declaration of Human…
If we abolished MIQ then Aotearoa NZ would be riddled with COVID, many thousands or tens of thousands would have died, many many more living with chronic conditions and the economy and society crippled. As it happens less than 50 have died, each one a tragedy, while I’ve just had a lovely Christmas with 3 generations, as many others are around the motu. Sure we had to video call relatives in other countries, but thei…
Who said abolish it? How about actually designing a system with enough slots so citizens can freely return? Other countries have done this, and controlled Covid, so why can Australia or NZ do it?
Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes
#63Investor visas are just a distraction. The fundamental problem is that there's any restriction whatsoever on New Zealand's citizens entering their own country. The MIQ system should be abolished, and anyone who helped create it, or who has had enough power in the country to abolish it but chose to let it continue, should be put in prison for human rights violations (specifically, in the Universal Declaration of Human…
Yup. Even authoritarian Singapore didn’t restrict its citizens from returning. It imposed rules on testing and quarantine, but they were free to jump on the next flight home. Incredible seeing democracies like Australia and NZ tell their own citizens “no, you cant come home”.
>Incredible seeing democracies like Australia and NZ tell their own citizens “no, you cant come home”.
To be fair, it's not their first dance with authoritarian measures. Both countries also employ widespread censorship for movies and video games among other things. Perhaps it shouldn't be that unexpected that they would cross the line on this too.
Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
In New Zealand we try to have something called the Rule of Law. The same laws and regulations apply to everyone regardless of wealth or political connection. The rule of law is the key innovation that allowed the industrial revolution to take place bringing the West to its present rich and free lifestyle. Adherence to the rule of law is a major reason why NZ is regularly in the top 5 countries globally for lack of co…
Honestly, the entire MIQ program is a gross violation of the bill of rights and several international treaties. So I don't think the rule of law goes very far in NZ as they seem to just handwave it away and most people in NZ couldn't care less because of the fear they have from living reasonably isolated for the past year and a half. NZers should expect to be on the hook for at least a few class action lawsuits for d…
I don't think the NZ bill of rights is applied the same way as other countries.
> Section 4 specifically denies the Act any supremacy over other legislation. The section states that Courts looking at cases under the Act cannot implicitly repeal or revoke, or make invalid or ineffective, or decline to apply any provision of any statute made by parliament, whether before or after the Act was passed because it is inconsistent with any provision of this Bill of Rights.
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_Bill_of_Rights_Act...
Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes
#65>Immigration New Zealand (INZ) recently granted 32 visas to people who pledged to invest at least $10m locally over three years and another 76 visas to individuals pledging to invest at least $3m, according to the news website Stuff. > With their visas in hand, investors may apply to compete for spots in New Zealand’s congested MIQ system. A stay in MIQ is a prerequisite for entry to the country, which has been large…
In New Zealand we try to have something called the Rule of Law. The same laws and regulations apply to everyone regardless of wealth or political connection. The rule of law is the key innovation that allowed the industrial revolution to take place bringing the West to its present rich and free lifestyle. Adherence to the rule of law is a major reason why NZ is regularly in the top 5 countries globally for lack of co…
Um, folks get a visa and wait in line for MIQ. That's both the law and just like everyone else with a visa.
Are you supporting mob rule? If so, you might wish to move to another country where "outrage" can lead to people getting killed right on the street in front of you.
Seriously, if you see "outraged" in a headline, be careful.
Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
If we abolished MIQ then Aotearoa NZ would be riddled with COVID, many thousands or tens of thousands would have died, many many more living with chronic conditions and the economy and society crippled. As it happens less than 50 have died, each one a tragedy, while I’ve just had a lovely Christmas with 3 generations, as many others are around the motu. Sure we had to video call relatives in other countries, but thei…
Who said abolish it? How about actually designing a system with enough slots so citizens can freely return? Other countries have done this, and controlled Covid, so why can Australia or NZ do it?
The parent comment said abolish it.
Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
In New Zealand we try to have something called the Rule of Law. The same laws and regulations apply to everyone regardless of wealth or political connection. The rule of law is the key innovation that allowed the industrial revolution to take place bringing the West to its present rich and free lifestyle. Adherence to the rule of law is a major reason why NZ is regularly in the top 5 countries globally for lack of co…
Um, folks get a visa and wait in line for MIQ. That's both the law and just like everyone else with a visa. Are you supporting mob rule? If so, you might wish to move to another country where "outrage" can lead to people getting killed right on the street in front of you. Seriously, if you see "outraged" in a headline, be careful.
NZ isn't currently issuing visas outside of a few categories of "special worker in shortage". (In order to citizens and residents a better chance at getting a quarantine spot.) So this introduces a new special exception for the very wealthy.
Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It's also kinda unfair to expect people to have seen Omikron coming Perhaps, it's unfair that the government is obligating severe COVID restrictions on travel for citizens (and non-citizens, alike) in a country with 80+% vaccination rates for a disease that's essentially endemic at this point. NZ seems to be just pushing the problem down the line at this point. There will never be a time where they can just open wi…
Just to add to your FWIW: covid is also not endemic. These regulations sound too restrictive but the attitude towards covid also seems kind of advanced of where we actually are, which is a disease that is mutating due to people traveling and artificial vaccine scarcity
I am sure there are countries where the entire government has art degrees and they took their covid advise from a zombie movie.
Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes
#69>Immigration New Zealand (INZ) recently granted 32 visas to people who pledged to invest at least $10m locally over three years and another 76 visas to individuals pledging to invest at least $3m, according to the news website Stuff. > With their visas in hand, investors may apply to compete for spots in New Zealand’s congested MIQ system. A stay in MIQ is a prerequisite for entry to the country, which has been large…
In New Zealand we try to have something called the Rule of Law. The same laws and regulations apply to everyone regardless of wealth or political connection. The rule of law is the key innovation that allowed the industrial revolution to take place bringing the West to its present rich and free lifestyle. Adherence to the rule of law is a major reason why NZ is regularly in the top 5 countries globally for lack of co…
Your tone is getting backlash, not your point. It's fair to say that citizens should not be put ahead of noncitizens trying to get back into the country during a crisis.
Let's say a time comes when every NZ'er who wants to get back to the country can do so immediately. Do you think it would be wrong for NZ to prioritize immigrants who can bring material wealth to the economy in general (not to politicians specifically)?
It's the monetary equivalent of importing intelligent students to top-tier graduate programs.
Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes
#70>Immigration New Zealand (INZ) recently granted 32 visas to people who pledged to invest at least $10m locally over three years and another 76 visas to individuals pledging to invest at least $3m, according to the news website Stuff. > With their visas in hand, investors may apply to compete for spots in New Zealand’s congested MIQ system. A stay in MIQ is a prerequisite for entry to the country, which has been large…
In New Zealand we try to have something called the Rule of Law. The same laws and regulations apply to everyone regardless of wealth or political connection. The rule of law is the key innovation that allowed the industrial revolution to take place bringing the West to its present rich and free lifestyle. Adherence to the rule of law is a major reason why NZ is regularly in the top 5 countries globally for lack of co…
Why does every discussion about some random country have to involve the US? It is getting really boring seeing the same mid-brow flawed arguments rehashed everywhere from Reddit's worldnews to HN.
Btw, NZ can afford to maintain a top spot on all these lists because it is a gated country with population less than that of NYC.
NZ's borders have always been closed for the world's poor. Now it is closed for non-elites and the just plain rich are revolting against it.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/22/on-the-edge-ar...
> Critics say failing to allow family members to join skilled workers will undermine post-pandemic recovery
If the US did a fraction of that for H1B workers, there would have been virtue signaling speeches in the UN.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/tough-rules-see-migrants-give-...
Be a bit more generous like the US for immigration, and then we will see how the US and NZ fare.