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Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

theguardian.com

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Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

#21

Post by [deleted] »

selimthegrim wrote: post #18
nimbius wrote: post #9

I think the cat was out of the bag when kimdotcom was indicted. New Zealand is bought and paid for by the cloistered elite seemingly against any real argument by the locals. You could make an argument the work here/look see initiative that imported skilled labor was somehow a counter indication of a plutocracy but I think its largely just salt in the wound for the average NZ resident as it ran defense for anyone who…

What’s the point of spending more on STEM education when the absurdly low salaries for tech and IT positions already have them going begging for workers?

[deleted]

Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

#22

Post by philliphaydon »

Macha wrote: post #5

So what happens if you're a NZer who can not get a MIQ slot (which may have been more plentiful when you left), but your Visa in your current location is expiring?

As far as I’m concerned. They don’t care. Wife and I were leaving singapore and got emergency visa for her as we would be stranded in singapore with no where to live and MIQ didn’t care at all. Unless we were able to get a letter or proof we can’t stay in singapore we were not provided any assistance while MIQ was in lock down.

Luckily Taiwan border opened up at the last minute and we were able to travel there instead.

Basically the whole quarantine and MIQ is a massive cluster fuck mess. And you can’t even call anyone. You can only contact them via email.

Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

#23

Post by gameswithgo »

selimthegrim wrote: post #18
nimbius wrote: post #9

I think the cat was out of the bag when kimdotcom was indicted. New Zealand is bought and paid for by the cloistered elite seemingly against any real argument by the locals. You could make an argument the work here/look see initiative that imported skilled labor was somehow a counter indication of a plutocracy but I think its largely just salt in the wound for the average NZ resident as it ran defense for anyone who…

What’s the point of spending more on STEM education when the absurdly low salaries for tech and IT positions already have them going begging for workers?

Increase the supply

Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

#24

Post by throwaway788 »

vanusa wrote: post #3
throwaway788 wrote: post #2

The last allocation of MIQ slots had 800+ rooms that were not taken. Anyone who urgently needed to return had the ability to secure a room in December. When Omicron appeared and it hadn’t been detected within the community in NZ it was obvious the NZ government would make changes to delay its introduction by moving to tighten MIQ settings and delaying any removal of quarantine restrictions. https://www.miq.govt.nz/ab…

Anyone who urgently needed to return had the ability to secure a room in December. I don't see how this is relevant. Moving forward, citizens and migrant workers will still be forced to get in line behind wealthy investors.

When it comes to MIQ allocation they aren’t put ahead of anyone - everyone who has the ability to enter NZ has the same chance and ability to obtain MIQ slots.

Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

#25

Post by parkingrift »

tuatoru wrote: post #17
parkingrift wrote: post #10

>Immigration New Zealand (INZ) recently granted 32 visas to people who pledged to invest at least $10m locally over three years and another 76 visas to individuals pledging to invest at least $3m, according to the news website Stuff. > With their visas in hand, investors may apply to compete for spots in New Zealand’s congested MIQ system. A stay in MIQ is a prerequisite for entry to the country, which has been large…

In New Zealand we try to have something called the Rule of Law. The same laws and regulations apply to everyone regardless of wealth or political connection. The rule of law is the key innovation that allowed the industrial revolution to take place bringing the West to its present rich and free lifestyle. Adherence to the rule of law is a major reason why NZ is regularly in the top 5 countries globally for lack of co…

Which part of the rule of law is being violated here?

Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

#26

Post by newnamenewface »

tuatoru wrote: post #20
refurb wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But this is the rule of law? These folks with their new visas line up just like everyone else for an MIQ slot?

The same rule for everyone regardless of wealth or political connection.

Something makes me doubt you could point out any society in history where the rich and well-connected are treated like everyone else. Not to say I think this is necessarily a good thing (or necessarily a bad thing, either) but them's the rules of the world.

Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

#27

Post by newnamenewface »

GekkePrutser wrote: post #8
sh4un wrote: post #4

It's funny because most countries have cautioned people not to leave right now and people just go anyways. No one is shedding tears when you are stuck because you couldn't wait for your budget vacation.

It's not always vacation. Many people have close family abroad that they want you see. Sometimes with medical issues so they may not get another chance. I wouldn't travel if vacation was the only reason. Especially if I were living in NZ which is one of the most beautiful places on earth IMO It's also kinda unfair to expect people to have seen Omikron coming :) with the distance to Europe most people from here in NZ…

> It's also kinda unfair to expect people to have seen Omikron coming

Perhaps, it's unfair that the government is obligating severe COVID restrictions on travel for citizens (and non-citizens, alike) in a country with 80+% vaccination rates for a disease that's essentially endemic at this point. NZ seems to be just pushing the problem down the line at this point. There will never be a time where they can just open without any cases so why are they still so incredibly restrictive?

FWIW: I am not a NZer, I don't plan to visit NZ any time soon, and I'll admit I'm relatively unversed on the political situation in NZ.

Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

#28

Post by Taniwha »

pmontra wrote: post #11
vanusa wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone who urgently needed to return had the ability to secure a room in December. I don't see how this is relevant. Moving forward, citizens and migrant workers will still be forced to get in line behind wealthy investors.

I'm not a NZ citizen, nor resident nor I have interest in getting there except maybe as a tourist someday. Anyway if I would apply for entry to NZ or any other country I'd expect that all citizens jump the line in front of me, then everyone paying millions, then everybody else.

And that would be true today as NZ is not currently allowing anyone without citizenship or a residency visa in at all (with some minor exemption for touring sports teams and the performing arts)

Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

#29

Post by jordansmithnz »

New Zealander here. My wife and I just made it through the MIQ system in time to see our families for Christmas (and introduce our son to his grandparents for the first time). A few interesting things:

- we had to enter the MIQ lottery five times before ‘winning’ a spot. The lottery system is the same used by some shoe drops and ticket reservations, and there is no weighting given to citizens that have enrolled in previous lotteries.

- when you make it through the lottery and select a date, it has to match the date you arrive in NZ exactly. If flights only go to NZ on certain dates, and those dates are all taken, then you’re out of luck. Many people make it through the lottery only to find that there are no dates left that work.

- you are not told what MIQ hotel room or city you will be in until you arrive in NZ. At that point you may be flown across the country (adding and extra 5+ hours to the end of an international trip), and placed in who-knows-what hotel. You are charged a set fee for the hotel.

- at every stage of your stay at MIQ, the people running the show have the ability to prolong your stay if they believe there is any COVID risk. The morning we were packing our bags to leave, the hotel called to say we needed to stay in our room while they waited on an urgent COVID test for a suspected positive case. Had the result actually been positive, most of the hotel (everyone from our flight) would have needed to stay additional days.

- ‘famous’ people go through MIQ too. We met someone on the flight that plays the lead role in a popular TV series. Like everyone else, they were flown across the country and placed in a hotel room.

- the hotel food is usually not great. We were fortunate enough to be in an Uber Eats delivery area, so we ordered out a few times.

In regards to the linked article: the real problem, at least to me, is that New Zealand citizens with an urgent need to come home (visa, sick relative, funeral, etc) are not always able to do so.

MIQ is an interesting experience, and at least at the start of COVID it made it possible for NZ preserve a pre-pandemic way of life. Now that we’re years into COVID and vaccines are readily available, it’s extremely frustrating for New Zealanders with family or loved ones overseas. Public opinion is steadily shifting towards ‘open up the country’, and the government has announced some tentative dates for doing this (although they were recently shifted back due to omicron).

Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

#30

Post by vanusa »

ilrwbwrkhv wrote: post #12

In almost all countries you can buy citizenship if you're rich. You don't even need to know the language. Immigration and all these gimmicks are for peasants only.

In almost all countries you can buy citizenship if you're rich.

This isn't about simply "buying citizenship".

It's about literally bouncing people who are already citizens out (for the duration of the pandemic).

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