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Trisquel GNU/Linux

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Re: Trisquel GNU/Linux

#61

Post by jraph »

einpoklum wrote: post #59

Trisquel's FAQ says: > Why should I use Trisquel instead of one of the better-known distributions? > There are literally hundreds of GNU/Linux distributions designed to fill every conceivable niche. Only a handful of them are entirely free software; Trisquel is one such distribution. ... but I disagree. Trisquel is based on ubuntu, and uses systemd. Not just as some optional init system you can remove - it's deeply d…

You are mixing concepts that are at different levels.

Free software is an answer to an ethical / political issue (user rights).

Systemd is an answer to a technical problem (how to manage system services, to simplify a lot).

And to each their own. It's good you found something that suits you in Devuan, but it has never been easier for me to tweak my systems since systemd landed on the distributions I use. Writing a service is a breeze, including free software I wrote. Things are fast at last. It took over for reasons, and I think those reasons are technical excellence and easier maintenance burden for distributions. I'm very happy with systemd. I don't feel like it "suppresses aspects of free software development" at all.

Re: Trisquel GNU/Linux

#62

Post by [deleted] »

widespace_ wrote: post #37
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“is a bit too extreme” Understatement of the year. You are a dev who wants to make some money on the side and keeps her software proprietary because monetizing open-source is a rare exception than the rule? F!@# her and her lack of ethics! And don’t touch her software, or her, with a 10 foot pole, let alone pay for it! Oh, there’s a proprietary firmware blob that this device requires, but it runs off onboard flash so…

>Understatement of the year. You are a dev who wants to make some money on the side and keeps her software proprietary because monetizing open-source is a rare exception than the rule? F!@# her and her lack of ethics! And don’t touch her software, or her, with a 10 foot pole, let alone pay for it! Are you asking for the free software foundation to support proprietary software?

[deleted]

Re: Trisquel GNU/Linux

#63

Post by squarefoot »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #18
sporedro wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get where they’re coming from, but this just sounds insane. If there were FOSS CPU microcode that could replace it or something and they only wanted to support that than fine, but if there’s no FOSS option why create security risks for users? I love the FOSS community, but sometimes their rationale is a bit too extreme for the average person to get behind.

“is a bit too extreme” Understatement of the year. You are a dev who wants to make some money on the side and keeps her software proprietary because monetizing open-source is a rare exception than the rule? F!@# her and her lack of ethics! And don’t touch her software, or her, with a 10 foot pole, let alone pay for it! Oh, there’s a proprietary firmware blob that this device requires, but it runs off onboard flash so…

You miss the point. It is absolutely true that making a living by writing FOSS is really hard, but it's not just about money. Monetizing out of personal data and advertising has never been profitable like today; Open Source is the only defense against abuse in that context. Look at what many popular closed operating systems and products, hardware included, became in the last 10 years or less: they stopped being tools in the hands of the user to morph into business platforms that mine users' data and/or bomb them with advertising. Many people probably would accept to live in a world in which every square meter is plastered with some ads and every move is analyzed to infer users habits and ultimately find what would be the easiest way to grab the most money from them, but I don't. All this privacy and security aside, which in some countries can make the difference between being poor and being poor and jailed or dead. FOSS is the last line of defense against that kind of abuse, being a bit extremist when dealing with abuses is a sign that someone, somewhere, understood what is going on.

BTW: if making money with FOSS is hard, it's not FOSS fault, but rather it shows how badly our economic system has failed.

Re: Trisquel GNU/Linux

#64

Post by scoopertrooper »

squarefoot wrote: post #63
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“is a bit too extreme” Understatement of the year. You are a dev who wants to make some money on the side and keeps her software proprietary because monetizing open-source is a rare exception than the rule? F!@# her and her lack of ethics! And don’t touch her software, or her, with a 10 foot pole, let alone pay for it! Oh, there’s a proprietary firmware blob that this device requires, but it runs off onboard flash so…

You miss the point. It is absolutely true that making a living by writing FOSS is really hard, but it's not just about money. Monetizing out of personal data and advertising has never been profitable like today; Open Source is the only defense against abuse in that context. Look at what many popular closed operating systems and products, hardware included, became in the last 10 years or less: they stopped being tools…

> BTW: if making money with FOSS is hard, it's not FOSS fault, but rather it shows how badly our economic system has failed.

If your business gives away its products for free, then it's always going to be an uphill battle to make money.

Re: Trisquel GNU/Linux

#65

Post by easrng »

scoopertrooper wrote: post #64
squarefoot wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You miss the point. It is absolutely true that making a living by writing FOSS is really hard, but it's not just about money. Monetizing out of personal data and advertising has never been profitable like today; Open Source is the only defense against abuse in that context. Look at what many popular closed operating systems and products, hardware included, became in the last 10 years or less: they stopped being tools…

> BTW: if making money with FOSS is hard, it's not FOSS fault, but rather it shows how badly our economic system has failed. If your business gives away its products for free, then it's always going to be an uphill battle to make money.

Just pre-fund with kickstarter or similar.

Re: Trisquel GNU/Linux

#66

Post by scoopertrooper »

quadrangle wrote: post #49
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing I said was not true. The FSF encourages all members to shun proprietary software of any kind - which is why we have Linux-Libre and Trisquel. Even though, to put it simply, monetizing open source is very rare and the FSF looks down on people (including solo programmers) with the gall to keep their software proprietary. The FSF is also a complete hypocrite when it comes to firmware. Proprietary firmware which…

There are vegans who encourage shunning animal products. And yes, there are critiques of people with the "gall" to eat meat. Those facts don't mean they are wrong. That's a matter of engaging with the actual arguments. To say the RYF certifcation is hypocritical is a misunderstanding. They drew a line for certification that isn't 100% puritanical. They aren't absolutely impractical. They don't say that your points ab…

Seems to me that they've found themselves stuck with the worst of both worlds. A freedom/privacy certification that has a pretty glaring (and arguably hypocritical) omission, and a tepid response from industry because they won't budge on things like including proprietary drivers for Windows.

Their certified product list is... sparse.

https://ryf.fsf.org/products

Re: Trisquel GNU/Linux

#67

Post by mustache_kimono »

tomcooks wrote: post #60
mustache_kimono wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just such an exceedingly weird opinion. "Permanent revolution" sounds very romantic, but real people want to stop and lives their lives, as well. Once you've convinced the broader industry of the benefits of FOSS, I'm not sure everyone has to be a radical anymore. I think GPL advocates/FSF/Stallman's time might be better spent finding a way to pay FOSS developers.

A gigacorporation owns the major git repository of open source software, and uses said code to promote its own ML code creation project. Another steals free software to implement its own live streaming, unpunished. Thousands of developers get paid to maintain free software by donations and contributions from the very advocates you find too radical. And you find romanticism weird‽

Re: 1, legally speaking, GPL does virtually nothing to prevent an ML model more than, say, MIT. It's a problem for all FOSS licenses. FSF/GPL really don't represent all of FOSS. As someone else noted, GPL is the 3rd most popular FOSS license. I'd add -- for a reason.

Re: 2, I know less about this, but from what I do know, legally speaking, this seems like a trademark problem, not a copyright or license issue.

I'm saying, in some sense, you've already won. If you want to fight about trademarks and other IP, God bless, please do. Just please don't think adopting the most extreme position re: your license choice endows you with some heightened dignity over someone who just made a different choice.

Re: Trisquel GNU/Linux

#68

Post by mustache_kimono »

tomcooks wrote: post #60
mustache_kimono wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just such an exceedingly weird opinion. "Permanent revolution" sounds very romantic, but real people want to stop and lives their lives, as well. Once you've convinced the broader industry of the benefits of FOSS, I'm not sure everyone has to be a radical anymore. I think GPL advocates/FSF/Stallman's time might be better spent finding a way to pay FOSS developers.

A gigacorporation owns the major git repository of open source software, and uses said code to promote its own ML code creation project. Another steals free software to implement its own live streaming, unpunished. Thousands of developers get paid to maintain free software by donations and contributions from the very advocates you find too radical. And you find romanticism weird‽

I'd also say there is a pretty clear tree of an argument re: the "everything must be libre only" line:

1. Are you a developer? Do you want to use your code later in project that you may not control?

2. Do you use non-GPL software? Like X/Wayland?

3. Do you use proprietary software? Why does a game dev deserve to get paid when that logging software upon which your company depends does not?

4. You're not any of the above -- are simply a user that wants FOSS firmware? What has libre-Linux done for you on this front? The answer is nothing. Except keep ZFS out of the kernel, because... reasons? More open firmware will happen. However, not because of legal reasons, but because FOSS arguments for transparency and market forces.

I'm not saying your choices are wrong. They are your choices after all. I'm saying they're not the only possible choices.

Re: Trisquel GNU/Linux

#69

Post by Noobdevs »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #18
sporedro wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get where they’re coming from, but this just sounds insane. If there were FOSS CPU microcode that could replace it or something and they only wanted to support that than fine, but if there’s no FOSS option why create security risks for users? I love the FOSS community, but sometimes their rationale is a bit too extreme for the average person to get behind.

“is a bit too extreme” Understatement of the year. You are a dev who wants to make some money on the side and keeps her software proprietary because monetizing open-source is a rare exception than the rule? F!@# her and her lack of ethics! And don’t touch her software, or her, with a 10 foot pole, let alone pay for it! Oh, there’s a proprietary firmware blob that this device requires, but it runs off onboard flash so…

No post body was provided.

Re: Trisquel GNU/Linux

#70

Post by squarefoot »

easrng wrote: post #65
scoopertrooper wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> BTW: if making money with FOSS is hard, it's not FOSS fault, but rather it shows how badly our economic system has failed. If your business gives away its products for free, then it's always going to be an uphill battle to make money.

Just pre-fund with kickstarter or similar.

Or through a light taxation system for biggest companies. If say .01% of the revenue of the 100 biggest IT corporations was distributed yearly among the most useful projects, those in need of maintainers etc, the developers living in bad economical conditions etc. the problem would probably cease to exist for thousands of developers while those being taxed would barely notice some missing change from their pockets. Not that different from public healthcare, therefore it requires a change of perspectives (the common good) to fully understand it.
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