Could housing be cheaper and better if we stop building so many staircases? • Hacker News Board

Re: Could housing be cheaper and better if we stop building so many staircases?

#11

Post by will4274 » Sat, Dec 25, 2021, 12:57 AM UTC

From the article:

> there’s no evidence that Americans and Canadians are any safer from structure fires than our neighbors around the world

Scott Alexander's recent article made me sensitive to the phrase "no evidence". https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/the-phrase-no-evidence.... Alexander writes:

> Science communicators are using the same term - “no evidence” - to mean:

> 1. This thing is super plausible, and honestly very likely true, but we haven’t checked yet, so we can’t be sure.

> 2. We have hard-and-fast evidence that this is false, stop repeating this easily debunked lie.

> This is utterly corrosive to anybody trusting science journalism.

I rather suspect that having independent two exits from the building does make us safer during a fire, and that this article simply represent lazy unprofessional journalism. The thorough lack of outsider opinions (from anybody other than the author and the subject of the article) strongly reinforces this initial impression.

Re: Could housing be cheaper and better if we stop building so many staircases?

#12

Post by Falkon1313 » Sat, Dec 25, 2021, 12:58 AM UTC

petee wrote: post #3

When the hallway is on fire and the only option is the stairs behind you, I really doubt you'll care about the space 'wasted' on them. And in response to Grenfell, the argument is tenants don't like fire drills; just wow. Eventually everyone forgets the reason for regulations...is there a named law for this phenomenon?

The standard is "Safety regulations are written in blood." That's short enough and better than indirectly referring to it via a named 'law'.

Re: Could housing be cheaper and better if we stop building so many staircases?

#13

Post by Sevii » Sat, Dec 25, 2021, 1:01 AM UTC

Abroszka wrote: post #8

Is it because of the building materials used? I think wood is super common in the US and wood burns easily. If one flat catches fire, all of them do.

Wood is very common in single story houses in the US. Large apartment buildings are made of concrete and steel. The tallest wood framed project I've seen was 3-4 stories with the first two concrete.

Re: Could housing be cheaper and better if we stop building so many staircases?

#14

Post by qwertyuiop_ » Sat, Dec 25, 2021, 1:01 AM UTC

I want to be kind to the author, he or she is seriously misinformed. An extra staircase is not wasted space. It’s a life saver and standards exist for a reason.

Is sidewalk a wasted space, maybe slate should write a dumb article on how people can walk between the road and curb and save space.

How about parks ? Should they be 1m x 1m square patches of grass.

Re: Could housing be cheaper and better if we stop building so many staircases?

#15

Post by syshum » Sat, Dec 25, 2021, 1:03 AM UTC

rococode wrote: post #7

Here's something that happened one week ago, a perfect (and sad) example of what happens when you only have one set of stairs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Osaka_building_fire > The victims gasped for air and had difficulties escaping, as there was only one escape route, with the emergency stairs and elevators being located outside the clinic. > Experts were surprised by the fire's high death toll. The authorit…

Yea, every fire code I know how requires a minimum of 2 escape route for occupancy

Re: Could housing be cheaper and better if we stop building so many staircases?

#16

Post by clavicat » Sat, Dec 25, 2021, 1:03 AM UTC

Would it be possible to construct a building that has four sides of apartments surrounding a central spiraling stairwell, but the stairwell is also adjacent to a conventional emergency stairwell that can be entered from every floor of the central stairwell? You would have to shrink all the apartments on one side of a building to make room for it, but I can see the layout in my head. Furthermore, you could connect another tower of apartments to the same emergency stairwell.

Re: Could housing be cheaper and better if we stop building so many staircases?

#17

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Dec 25, 2021, 1:04 AM UTC

brian-armstrong wrote: post #9

Apreche wrote: post #6

If you want to save space maybe eliminate the parking lot/garage before you eliminate the extra staircase.

Wouldn't that make parking pretty annoying? Anecdotally, at least in SF, lack of parking options set a home's value back pretty far.

[deleted]

Re: Could housing be cheaper and better if we stop building so many staircases?

#18

Post by twobitshifter » Sat, Dec 25, 2021, 1:04 AM UTC

https://compote.slate.com/images/68185c52-46c3-448f-9cdd-96d...

It seems possible to add a second stair case to this design. You’d just mirror the first over to where the courtyard is. You’d lose the courtyard and ability to see your neighbor, but it looks like the building could still be made to jut out some past the stairs to keep light on that side.

Re: Could housing be cheaper and better if we stop building so many staircases?

#19

Post by Abroszka » Sat, Dec 25, 2021, 1:05 AM UTC

rococode wrote: post #7

Here's something that happened one week ago, a perfect (and sad) example of what happens when you only have one set of stairs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Osaka_building_fire > The victims gasped for air and had difficulties escaping, as there was only one escape route, with the emergency stairs and elevators being located outside the clinic. > Experts were surprised by the fire's high death toll. The authorit…

Not really. The wikipage says some pretty disturbing things under the investigation section. No amount of staircases would have helped.

Re: Could housing be cheaper and better if we stop building so many staircases?

#20

Post by Falkon1313 » Sat, Dec 25, 2021, 1:06 AM UTC

Abroszka wrote: post #8

Is it because of the building materials used? I think wood is super common in the US and wood burns easily. If one flat catches fire, all of them do.

It's primarily because you can't easily foresee at the time you design the building where any/all future fires will occur.

If the stairway's the only way out and that's where a fire happens, then the whole thing is a deathtrap.