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Turkey's Financial Crisis

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Re: Turkey's Financial Crisis

#161

Post by Cyph0n »

worik wrote: post #159
Cyph0n wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, let’s work with that. Do you also apply that logic to Sikh turbans ( dastar )? In other words, do you believe that forbidding Sikhs from covering their hair is not religious persecution? How do you think Sikhs would react to that? Edit: Or wait, I might have misunderstood: do you actually think that a hijab is equivalent to a generic headscarf? If so, it is not - please read a bit about it before commenting fur…

I am with you, not against you. Turbans are fine by me. Of course banning them is religious persecution (there is an interesting intersection with motor cycle helmet laws) I do not want to wear one (but I have been known to wear a headscarf) There is no justification for fashion law. The niqāb is problematic. I find it difficult to talk with some one when I cannot see their face. (Then there was Covid....). I am not…

Sorry about that - sarcasm is tough to detect sometimes haha!

I agree about the niqab as it can be a bit of a hurdle to deal with in some situations.

Re: Turkey's Financial Crisis

#162

Post by cblconfederate »

csomar wrote: post #35
hereforphone wrote: post #2

Erdoğan claims that lowering interest rates to zero or near zero is more in line with Islamic principles, which may be true (according to interpretation of Islamic principles, I assume). This is a bold move that reinforces what was already suspected: he is continuing to solidify his power by appealing to Islamic sympathies. During the recent coup calls to resist the belligerents were broadcast over mosque loudspeaker…

Erdoğan is a Ottoman and not an Islamic leader. He is using Islam to reach his goals but he is not married to it. He'll move away from Islam as soon as it no longer serves his purposes.

Not at all. Ottoman Sultans led a multicultural empire. There is now not a single neighbour of turkey that has good relations with them. Erdogan is an opportunist populist, not a great leader, sadly for turks

Re: Turkey's Financial Crisis

#163

Post by cblconfederate »

DSingularity wrote: post #9
hereforphone wrote: post #2

Erdoğan claims that lowering interest rates to zero or near zero is more in line with Islamic principles, which may be true (according to interpretation of Islamic principles, I assume). This is a bold move that reinforces what was already suspected: he is continuing to solidify his power by appealing to Islamic sympathies. During the recent coup calls to resist the belligerents were broadcast over mosque loudspeaker…

Throats were slit? I never read that. If you believe in democracy you would celebrate the failure of a coup. Even if you hate the surviving leader, you ought to prefer defeating him within the frameworks of democracy. You seem to really dislike Muslim culture. If the people of Turkey want their culture to closer to that of Syria instead of Germany, what’s the problem?

> Even if you hate the surviving leader, you ought to prefer defeating him within the frameworks of democracy.

Not in this case. The military (with its coups) was often the force that kept the turkish democracy alive, or else it would have fallen to many more dictators

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/7/16/timeline-a-history-...

Re: Turkey's Financial Crisis

#164

Post by throwaway472927 »

SilasX wrote: post #148
mrtksn wrote: post #92

Erdogan pulled a huge pump and dump scheme a few days ago. He kept repeating everything that makes the Turkish Lira weaker and weaker, he and his government claimed that the plan is to lower the lira and compete on price and the lira is not weak because they failed but because that's the plan. We will be the next China, they said. Then on the night of Dec 20, he introduces a financial instrument where the government…

Wow, that’s bizarre. I don’t recall governments ever aggressively propping up their currency, usually they devalue it as a silent tax or export subsidy.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Wednesday ?

Re: Turkey's Financial Crisis

#165

Post by jopsen »

ahelwer wrote: post #94
jcfrei wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any source on that claim that Obama was behind the coup attempt in 2016?

There are never any sources on these things until 20 years after the fact. So we really don't know. But if you'd gone ahead and assumed America had a hand in every coup in the Western world over the past century, you'd at least have a pretty good batting average.

By that logic it could also be the British.

Essentially it's unsubstantiated claims made largely out of thin air. It's useless.

Re: Turkey's Financial Crisis

#166

Post by dan-robertson »

smnrchrds wrote: post #18
hereforphone wrote: post #2

Erdoğan claims that lowering interest rates to zero or near zero is more in line with Islamic principles, which may be true (according to interpretation of Islamic principles, I assume). This is a bold move that reinforces what was already suspected: he is continuing to solidify his power by appealing to Islamic sympathies. During the recent coup calls to resist the belligerents were broadcast over mosque loudspeaker…

> Islam was acceptable (as Turkey was attempting to be a "free" republic), but not compulsory. Until Erdogan overturned it, there was a ban on women wearing hijab (the head covering , that the vast majority of Muslims consider a basic tenet of their religion) in universities in Turkey. I leave the judgment to you, but personally I wouldn't consider asking millions of people to choose between adhering to their religio…

It seems to me that headscarf-wearing is quite politicised in many countries and I think there is a risk of applying the standards of one’s own political group in one’s own country to another place where the connotations are different.

For example in developed English-speaking countries, allowing headscarves is seen as promoting diversity, inclusiveness and tolerance. Wanting to restrict this is generally considered to be somewhere between right-wing and bigoted. In France, views tend to be different. In Iran, where hair coverings are mandatory for women, the connotations are different and they can be symbols of an authoritarian or oppressive government (to certain people at least) instead.

In this case, as well as the culture in Turkey, one must consider:

- changing attitudes to who attends university since the old rules were introduced.

- changing attitudes among Muslims to headscarves since the old rules were introduced.

- changing attitudes towards secularisation (and politics in general) since the old rules were introduced.

It seems to me that most HN readers (myself included) are not in a good position to pass judgement and that this comment benefits from the liberal anglosphere view aligning with its arguments. But I don’t know how that fits in with the way Turks think or used to think.

Re: Turkey's Financial Crisis

#167

Post by NicoJuicy »

wheelerof4te wrote: post #146
mrtksn wrote: post #92

Erdogan pulled a huge pump and dump scheme a few days ago. He kept repeating everything that makes the Turkish Lira weaker and weaker, he and his government claimed that the plan is to lower the lira and compete on price and the lira is not weak because they failed but because that's the plan. We will be the next China, they said. Then on the night of Dec 20, he introduces a financial instrument where the government…

The plan is to get rid of $US reserves and replace them with a currency of some other country. Maybe China. Bold move, and a smart one, considering the outright hostile actions by the US towards the country. No dollar reserves, means no more economic bullying by the US.

Then Turkey will become China's puppet, like Russia is now.

Russia is already losing their strong engineering force to China, their resources are bought cheaply by China and China is not even remotely investing in Russia. Much to the dismay of Putin.

Turkey next?

Re: Turkey's Financial Crisis

#168

Post by American12143 »

forvelin wrote: post #14
1cvmask wrote: post #5

I looked up the core values of Turkey. And their debt to gdp ratio is 40%. Neighboring Greece is 200%. The Turkish economy was the second fastest growing economy last year in the G20 and is on pace to be the one of the fastest growing economies this year. Turkey has had record exports and been one of the most successful in tourism both last year and this year helping the current account deficit. Yet bankrupt Greece c…

is this unexpected ? erdogan literally buys weapons from russia as a nato member, allies with putin at every occassion and disregards any civilized values. he'd like to squeeze minorities as he wants, oppress the opposition as he wants and ally with whoever he wants. at that point, people might not want to cooperate with you, a bit of diplomacy eh ?

No post body was provided.

Re: Turkey's Financial Crisis

#169

Post by dan-robertson »

LatteLazy wrote: post #119
financetechbro wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US does not have negative rates. Every other central bank would raise interest rates with inflation at the levels we’re seeing in turkey. They problem here is that Turkey is doing the opposite

The US doesn't have negative interest rates, but with inflation over 6% and rates at 1.25% that's a pretty big negative real rate...

If you look at the long-term expected inflation rate based on T-bill yields, it is not so different from before (say around 2018-19 or so). I think 6% is probably an inappropriate number to use in this comparison. Though I agree it looks like negative real rates.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/T10YIE

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/T5YIE

(Alternatively you could suppose we’ll have inflation at x for one year and y on average for the next 9. If that’s the case I think the data above implies x=2.22% and y=4.7%, so I still think 6% is too much but maybe not totally crazy)

Re: Turkey's Financial Crisis

#170

Post by istinetz »

Cyph0n wrote: post #109
istinetz wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, yes. What solution do you propose? Mass propaganda? Perhaps possible in 2021, but it wouldn't have been as effective in the 1930s.

Why did you use the word “propaganda”? Why not “education”? Regardless of the time period, I would simply propose focusing on educating current and future generations that men and women have equal rights. If you dig into history a bit, you’ll find that state-sponsored persecution - ethnic, religious, or otherwise - is almost always guaranteed to backfire in the long run.

Because I dislike euphemisms.

Is it any less propaganda just because you agree with it?

Educating people of what? "Gender equality is good" is a normative statement.

And nitpicking aside, my point stands entirely, whether it's "propaganda" or "education".

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