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Running your own email is increasingly an artisanal choice, not a practical one

utcc.utoronto.ca

361–370 of 519 posts

Re: Running your own email is increasingly an artisanal choice, not a practical one

#361
post #357

I'm a well versed software engineer and even I had trouble setting up my email. After a while I realized it was not worthed, so I keep using Gmail, hoping I don't violate any of their policies or get tangled in the algorithm. As I see here, it's a hard thing to recover once this go wrong with big tech.

So you are just not that well versed as you thought you are.

Re: Running your own email is increasingly an artisanal choice, not a practical one

#362
post #122

I would really say that "running your own email" is a set of things that can be done independently: - Getting your own domain and using a provider such as fastmail or proton is a first step that gives you lots of security fom arbitrary. Because you own the doorstep, you can change provider without having to inform all your contacts of the move. You're also more secure from unilateral moves from your provider. -Hostin…

> Sending your mail yourself is the real hard part No, having quality spam and fraud filtering, and quality security, that you host yourself, is by far the much harder problem. I would argue that outsourcing your email to Proton or Tutanota is not running your own "artisanal" email server. By the way, even with those email providers, I still have terrible spam and fraud emails getting through filters that I never wou…

I still have a @gmail.com account and every time I check it there's a whole lot of spam sitting in the inbox waiting to be classified as spam. Very strange as my main address (which I've had as my main address for almost 20 years) is on FastMail and hardly gets any spam despite the address being much more exposed e.g. it's found on many public mailing lists and it's been part of more data breaches than I can count. Yet it's Gmail that gets the torrent of spam including many obvious ones ending up in the inbox. YMMV of course but I don't rate Gmail highly compared to FastMail and even Office365.

Re: Running your own email is increasingly an artisanal choice, not a practical one

#363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use a domain, registered at Namecheap, and I forward to my gmail account. If gmail “goes away” I simply configure my email to forward elsewhere. If I’m unhappy with Namecheap forwarding, I point my DNS at another forwarding provider. If I’m unhappy with Namecheap, I transfer my domain to another provider. It gives me all the flexibility I need with almost no work or maintenance. There are enough mail providers that…

But what if... the TLD owner decides to 10x the domain price?

For personal domains, I bite the initial cost and buy the domain for 10 years, then every year top it up to 10 again. For a $20/yr domain that’s only $200 up front, and if the cost suddenly goes up or some other TLD policy changes that I hate, I have plenty of time to gradually move to a cheaper/better domain.

One thing I’m not sure of is what happens if I want to switch registrars in that time—will the full 10 years of ownership transfer to the new registrar?

Re: Running your own email is increasingly an artisanal choice, not a practical one

#364
post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are plenty of issues, but there are also plenty of solutions. You're having issues sending because your netblock sucks and you don't have money for something better? Pay a few dollars to smarthost, for instance. I do and outlook.com still gives a shit and doesn't accept incoming emails. There is also no way to get their attention for this issue, as they simply don't reply to complaints about that. How to solv…

In my dealings with outlook postmaster my experience is as follows: They ignore any argument you make or proof you show them that their servers are accepting emails and then silently dropping them. So that's basically the experience you mention. However they will immediately unban your IP when you mention that you will recommend your customers switch away from Outlook email since it is unreliable. That's for a totall…

How are you going to make that recommendation to your customers if they can't receive your emails?

(Of course I'm being facetious; other communication channels exist. But the idea made me think of the interrogation scene in The Matrix with Microsoft in the role of Agent Smith.)

Re: Running your own email is increasingly an artisanal choice, not a practical one

#365
post #320

It's amazing how quickly people with strong feelings about email come out when any mention of self hosting is made. They can't prove a negative, but they valiantly try, often using the very points that are excellent reasons to self-host as reasons we should all just give up. "It doesn't work for me, so it won't work for you" is rather weak when the reasons aren't articulated, when generalizations are made without det…

Yes. I want to create a mail server that auto-rejects e-mail with externally hosted tracking pixels and returns a Mailer-Daemon error that tells the sender to re-send without malware. Of course with Gmail I disable automatic image loading to avoid being tracked, but I want to take a more active stance against the practice.

If you do this you might not be able to go on a "paperless" billing plan with your bank or insurance company. I disable images too but financial institutions interpret "no tracking image requests" as "client's email address doesn't work" and they start mailing me paper again. Took me years to figure out the reason for this brain-dead lossage.

Re: Running your own email is increasingly an artisanal choice, not a practical one

#366
post #155

Much more needs to be said about the extreme advantages of paying someone vs. using a free service. I've said this for over two decades: If you have a business, or even just a lot of important stuff going on in email (which is like everybody); it strikes me as insanity to not pay for the peace of mind that comes with "a human you can call up and say 'hey, why can't I get into my email' or 'hey, fix this please" Versu…

> not pay for the peace of mind that comes with "a human you can call up and say 'hey, why can't I get into my email' or 'hey, fix this please" That stance would make sense if that were an option with google hosted email.

I don't understand your comment? The stance makes sense now because it is an option with smaller hosting services. I use one myself.

Re: Running your own email is increasingly an artisanal choice, not a practical one

#367
post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of mail are you sending? Are you getting anything on your abuse@ address? Are you getting any feedback on JMRP [0]? If all else fails, the mailop mailing list [1] can get you closer to someone on one of these networks to help. >There is also no way to get their attention for this issue, as they simply don't reply to complaints about that. How to solve issues like that? At one point, after getting one-too-ma…

> What kind of mail are you sending? Just personal emails. Volume would be somewhere around one email per month or so. > Are you getting anything on your abuse@ address? Nope. > Are you getting any feedback on JMRP [0]? That seems to require a Microsoft account and that's something I neither have nor want. I believe sending emails has to work without having to register an account for each provider you're interacting…

>That seems to require a Microsoft account and that's something I neither have nor want. I believe sending emails has to work without having to register an account for each provider you're interacting with.

Yes it does require signing up with them. I see that you’re taking a moral stance on this so I guess the best action is to just ask people to not use Microsoft email products, which is perfectly reasonable in my opinion.

For what it’s worth, I do have an account with them and I am very small scale and don’t have any deliverability issues with Microsoft.

Re: Running your own email is increasingly an artisanal choice, not a practical one

#369

If I have business outcomes that are dependent on people receiving my emails, it's difficult for me to be in a situation where the other person may need to, at some point, be told that they aren't getting my emails because I'm on some kind of "hipster email system" which they are no doubt going to perceive it to be. They're probably going to wonder why they are wasting their time with me when I can't even get somethi…

Hipster mail system. Also known as "mail like we've done it the last 4 decades". Strange!

I think the commenter was trying to prove that point. It's not a hipster email system, but non-technical folks will perceive it as such.

Re: Running your own email is increasingly an artisanal choice, not a practical one

#370

It's amazing how quickly people with strong feelings about email come out when any mention of self hosting is made. They can't prove a negative, but they valiantly try, often using the very points that are excellent reasons to self-host as reasons we should all just give up. "It doesn't work for me, so it won't work for you" is rather weak when the reasons aren't articulated, when generalizations are made without det…

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