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Tesla bows to pressure, stops allowing drivers to play video games while driving

theguardian.com

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Re: Tesla bows to pressure, stops allowing drivers to play video games while driving

#11

Post by ajross »

olliej wrote: post #6

This was clearly a terrible idea from the beginning. They presumable thinking was that autopilot/fsd would be driving the car so the driver could play games. At the same time they’re claiming that they aren’t responsible for autopilot crashes because the driver is always meant to be able to instantly be in control of the car. You can’t really do both “the driver can be focused on non driving tasks” and also “the driv…

> They presumable thinking was that autopilot/fsd would be driving the car so the driver could play games.

Arrgh. It was a feature for the passenger to play games while preserving the driving UI. Absolutely no one intended for this to be used by drivers. There isn't even any evidence of a driver being caught doing this. The coverage is basically clickbait, and you appear to have bought it exactly as it was intended.

Whether it's really a good idea or not? I mean, the driver can pull out a phone or iPad and game/text/whatever to their hearts content already. And many do. And lots of them die. Why exactly are we treating this any differently?

Re: Tesla bows to pressure, stops allowing drivers to play video games while driving

#12

Post by paweladamczuk »

What about the idea that, as a customer who bought and owns something, you should have control over that thing, not the other way around?

I am not saying this is the stronger argument. It's still an argument, though, and it surprised me to find this sentiment missing from the comments (granted, we're at only 7 comments right now). Why would something we want applied to smartphones and PCs not apply to cars?

Re: Tesla bows to pressure, stops allowing drivers to play video games while driving

#13

Post by joenathanone »

alphabettsy wrote: post #3

It seems like they could’ve used the occupancy sensor to detect a passenger. A passenger playing a game on the screen which are also where your only instruments are located seems like an unnecessary added distraction so I’d say they made the right call.

I tried playing a game while in FSD and the cabin camera is super sensitive when a game is open, when I reach my hand for the screen the car starts beeping and flashing warnings for me to pay attention to the road.

Re: Tesla bows to pressure, stops allowing drivers to play video games while driving

#14

Post by jeroenhd »

warning26 wrote: post #10
waiseristy wrote: post #8

Which brings up a fun question; At which point does pressing buttons on a screen to play a video game while driving cause just as much distraction as pressing buttons on a screen to manage your windshield wipers / drive mode / HVAC / windows? There used to be a lot of crashes attributed to "playing with the radio" in the 90's / 00's. Maybe all those buttons on the wheel and a display centered in the drivers cone of v…

Honestly, I wish the powers-that-be would crack down harder on touchscreens in vehicles. There is no case where manipulating a touchscreen while driving is safe, for one simple reason: you have to look at the screen to use it because there's no tactile feedback. They are truly, as that one book title went, unsafe at any speed .

There have been some experiments with effective tactile feedback provided by touch screens, but they're complicated to produce and expensive. Most of the research seems to be aimed at providing touch screens to the visually impaired.

It's possible to get some kind of tactile response mimicking the edges of buttons well enough. I'd say a good implementation of this technology would be safe IF the position and availability of the controls would be static. I'm not sure what you'd get out of a touch screen with those constraints (less parts?), especially with the added cost and research, but that's the only way I can see a touch screen in a car that should ever be legal.

A Tesla driver in Germany already got fined for using the touch screen of his car while driving. It's strange how this obvious flaw of a car design has ever been allowed onto the roads.

Re: Tesla bows to pressure, stops allowing drivers to play video games while driving

#15

Post by rektide »

a reminder that automobiles in the united states kill 36 thousand people a year (~6k being pedestrians), cause >3 million medically consulted injuries, and >10m property damages/non-disabling injuries.

i have a hard time with this issue of what is permitted in a car. personally i feel like a good driver, like i will handle things fine. but i also once was going up an icy highway late at night & ended up spinning 360 around (thankfully with no one around me & staying on the road) because i spent about 1 second going for some last fries in a take out bag & couldn't re-stabilize. it had just so happened to be the wrong moment.

in driving, mostly things are boring & unexciting. but secretly we are surrounded by just the wrong moments, dotted here & there amid the boring. typically there's enough slack to navigate & avoid the little hazards, to prevent catastrophe or damage. but a little compounding factor can matters a lot. it's hard to impress onto drivers- who typically see such boring, easy, unassuming tasks, endlessly playing out- that this is serious work, that it requires vigilance. eternal, unrelenting, persistent vigilance. to believe in the hazardousness of the situation, especially whenever there is another human soul anywhere in a couple hundred meters. human's aren't built for hyper-vigilance, for attentiveness in such fast moving, high energy situations.

so i don't know what we can do, but keep locking down on driving. anyone in charge of over 0.5kg of moving mass: sorry, but society has a moral obligation to clamp down on, to restrict potential distractions. whether it's your passenger playing a game or them just futzing with bluetooth. there's so so so many hours lost to driving, and having such a spartan existence at the wheel, having machines that refuse to interact (be it passenger or driver) or distract, that monitor the driver conditions... it just seems mandatory. i don't like it, don't want it for myself, it feels stupid. but i don't see that we have any other choices to pick from, given what absurd catastrophe driving enacts, every single second on this planet.

Re: Tesla bows to pressure, stops allowing drivers to play video games while driving

#16

Post by DSingularity »

paweladamczuk wrote: post #12

What about the idea that, as a customer who bought and owns something, you should have control over that thing, not the other way around? I am not saying this is the stronger argument. It's still an argument, though, and it surprised me to find this sentiment missing from the comments (granted, we're at only 7 comments right now). Why would something we want applied to smartphones and PCs not apply to cars?

… because it’s really hard for me to misuse my smartphone to the point where it kills someone/myself.

Re: Tesla bows to pressure, stops allowing drivers to play video games while driving

#17

Post by warning26 »

jeroenhd wrote: post #14
warning26 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I wish the powers-that-be would crack down harder on touchscreens in vehicles. There is no case where manipulating a touchscreen while driving is safe, for one simple reason: you have to look at the screen to use it because there's no tactile feedback. They are truly, as that one book title went, unsafe at any speed .

There have been some experiments with effective tactile feedback provided by touch screens, but they're complicated to produce and expensive. Most of the research seems to be aimed at providing touch screens to the visually impaired. It's possible to get some kind of tactile response mimicking the edges of buttons well enough. I'd say a good implementation of this technology would be safe IF the position and availabi…

> ...safe IF the position and availability of the controls would be static

Agreed -- this was also why the Apple Touchbar failed, IMO.

Typically keyboard use relies on a lot of muscle memory, and so the touchbar's "you get a different set of controls with different shapes and sizes that do different things depending on which app you're using" design ethos didn't really fit with how people actually use keyboards.

Re: Tesla bows to pressure, stops allowing drivers to play video games while driving

#18

Post by ehnto »

waiseristy wrote: post #8

Which brings up a fun question; At which point does pressing buttons on a screen to play a video game while driving cause just as much distraction as pressing buttons on a screen to manage your windshield wipers / drive mode / HVAC / windows? There used to be a lot of crashes attributed to "playing with the radio" in the 90's / 00's. Maybe all those buttons on the wheel and a display centered in the drivers cone of v…

If your eyes aren't on the road, you aren't driving. I have zero sympathy for any of the edge cases people tend to bring up except checking your speed. Just drive the car. Take your tech-addled brains out of dopamine acquisition mode for the duration of the drive, then have a big 'ol binge at the end if you must.

It's such trivial things that people risk their lives for too. A sort of trashy naivety. Like smoking at the gas pump.

Re: Tesla bows to pressure, stops allowing drivers to play video games while driving

#19

Post by simmonmt »

alphabettsy wrote: post #3

It seems like they could’ve used the occupancy sensor to detect a passenger. A passenger playing a game on the screen which are also where your only instruments are located seems like an unnecessary added distraction so I’d say they made the right call.

… if you’re in a 3 or a Y. The S and X both have instrument cluster screens.

Re: Tesla bows to pressure, stops allowing drivers to play video games while driving

#20

Post by jeroenhd »

paweladamczuk wrote: post #12

What about the idea that, as a customer who bought and owns something, you should have control over that thing, not the other way around? I am not saying this is the stronger argument. It's still an argument, though, and it surprised me to find this sentiment missing from the comments (granted, we're at only 7 comments right now). Why would something we want applied to smartphones and PCs not apply to cars?

The difference is that it's very hard to accidentally kill a family by messing with your PC or smartphone, assuming you're not doing it while driving. Your own safety is your own responsibility and if you want to try for a Darwin award you should be allowed to, but you're not the likely victim of something goes wrong.

Cars are inherently dangerous, mostly to the people around you. Modern car safety makes sure you can practically drive into a wall and come out fine, but any people you might hit on the way won't share your fate.

You should have control over the stuff you buy, but to use that stuff on public roads you'll have to get it certified for safety. If you want to build your own race track to play video games on, be my guest, but keep your mods off the streets.

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