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NFT Replicas: An app to mint a replica of virtually any NFT

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Re: NFT Replicas: An app to mint a replica of virtually any NFT

#201

Post by seibelj »

bootlooped wrote: post #194
max48 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The "value" of an NFT is that there is only one unique occurrance of it in a pile of bits called a blockchain. It is very hard to hang it on a wall. It's worst than that because almost all NFTs are only an pointer/URL and the art itself is not on the chain.

And the provenance of which NFT is legitimate and/or original is not on the chain either. I create myartwork.jpeg. Somebody creates an NFT of it. Later, I create an NFT of it. Even later a bunch of people make NFT replicas of both. Which NFT is legitimate? The blockchain doesn't know.

If you publicly state which smart contract is your NFT, then that would be the real one. Similarly someone could claim a physical painting is yours, but you could publicly say it isn't. The blockchain doesn't know anymore than a physical canvas "knows" what is real and what is fake. The blockchain is a tool, the artist is the creator and arbiter of what the real NFT is.

Re: NFT Replicas: An app to mint a replica of virtually any NFT

#202

Post by douglaswlance »

zepto wrote: post #24
douglaswlance wrote: post #18

A Michael Jordan rookie card is worth tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars depending on grade. If I print a Michael Jordan rookie card onto cardstock, it will be worth basically nothing. The reason that something is valuable to collectors is the social contract between creator and recipient. The value in NFTs exists by that same social contract. You can't ignore that relationship when criticizing them, otherwise…

> The reason that something is valuable to collectors is the social contract between creator and recipient. No, it’s because the valuable object is physically scarce, and exists as a material historical artifact independent of any ledger . NFTs have never and will never have these attributes. You can't ignore this reality when advocating for them, otherwise you're peddling a fantasy.

>No, it’s because the valuable object is physically scarce, and exists as a material historical artifact independent of any ledger. NFTs have never and will never have these attributes.

Collectible cards are scarce by design. Manufacturers print millions every year. They could reproduce the same card for decades. They could also print them on demand. Whenever someone orders the card, print it for them, and ship it out. It is artificial scarcity.

Collectible cards must be graded and registered to be valuable. An unregistered Michael Jordan rookie card would be assumed to be a fake. They exist in a ledger.

The social contract between collectors and manufacturers is what creates the value. The manufacturer agrees to generate verifiable scarcity, and the collector agrees to purchase seemingly worthless cardboard and ink at a markup.

Re: NFT Replicas: An app to mint a replica of virtually any NFT

#203

Post by danuker »

zepto wrote: post #199
danuker wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for the response! And sorry for taking so long with mine. I agree that the example you provided is a more "objective" one, more grounded in physical reality - a tulip costing the same as a 10 years' salary. > Obviously this is absurd, and history proved it so. Had the tulips kept their scarcity, and had social interest remained at such high levels, couldn't it have kept its value? An example I have is gold:…

It seems like you are in full agreement with me that the way we value NFTs is exactly equivalent to the valuing of Tulips during the bubble of 1637. > Had the tulips kept their scarcity, They did. > and had social interest remained at such high levels, couldn't it have kept its value? You mean if the tulip bubble had never burst would we still be paying 10 years of a skilled persons salary for one? Sure. It’s worth n…

> You mean if the tulip bubble had never burst? Sure.

Exactly. There is no guarantee the NFT bubble will burst! People might keep enjoying these, and investing a significant portion of their lives.

Re: NFT Replicas: An app to mint a replica of virtually any NFT

#204

Post by Kiro »

loceng wrote: post #176
andybak wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the scarcity of that is real. Scarcity on it's own does not equal value. The value comes either from social consensus or direct utility. Real numbers are scarce. There's only one of each.

This thread is the perfect example of a lack of grounded thinking in the Bitcoin/crypto community - a disconnect from practical reality. I first noticed this incongruence with time tested business models when all Bitcoin related business plans/pitch decks, they'd never even list price comparisons as a competitive factor - arguably the #1 most important metric to address when wanting to disrupt an industry or model.

I don't think the crypto community thinks it's magically is something it's not. Most serious NFT investors are probably well aware that all they're buying is just a ledger entry.

Blockchain has almost no practical uses right now but it does provide a way to make something digitally unique, even if it's just a JSON with an ID and an URL. Not saying the data is unique but the ledger entry is. Only one wallet can own it at a time and it's easily proven. Maybe it will never have any practical applications but I don't see how that could be done without a blockchain.

Re: NFT Replicas: An app to mint a replica of virtually any NFT

#205

Post by blueski »

vmception wrote: post #189
blueski wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Limiting ourselves to the digital world - does ownership of an NFT give me any more rights to experience or enjoy a piece of work than a non-owner? If someone else wanted to use my Bored Ape as their Twitter photo, could I stop them?

Yes, it does. Bored Ape Yacht Club (BAYC), for example, has physical clubs and events that require users to prove provenance for access. This means signing an address that is a current owner, and applies to both physical and digital access of tertiary goods and services. Signing an address proves access to that address and means they have the private key to move everything. The "right click and save as" "screenshot"…

> "physical clubs and events that require users to prove provenance for access"

Feels like the "access to physical events" problem was solved before NFTs.

> The "right click and save as" "screenshot" and "twitter photo" people would not have access.

But per original question - if I wanted to use any Bored Ape as my Twitter photo, is there anything stopping me?

Take your point re: additional digital goods being delivered on chain, just feels a little anemic vs the richness of everything else available for free (or behind a membership) online. If users didn't care primarily about price appreciation, not sure whether that part would be exciting.

Maybe it requires the collector gene to be enthused? If so, can these kinds of Web3 applications ever go mainstream as Web2 apps?

Re: NFT Replicas: An app to mint a replica of virtually any NFT

#206

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

kranke155 wrote: post #171
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Closed source software can still be copied, even if you charge money for it. I have never created any software that utilized any form of DRM. Hell, most of the code I write is public domain, making it even more free than most open source software. Besides, I'm not saying we shouldn't compensate creators. Unfortunately even though the digital world is post scarcity the one where our bodies reside is not and creators n…

So you agree that DRM is a way to enforce scarcity in a post scarcity world ? Your words - my software can be copied even though I sell it. exactly the same with NFTs. My Digital art can be copied even though I sell it as an NFT. NFTs don’t enforce scarcity at all, not of the artwork itself.

> So you agree that DRM is a way to enforce scarcity in a post scarcity world ?

Yes, and one that is fundamentally flawed, and never should have been attempted in the first place in my opinion, but I think you'll agree that an NFT is not quite the same thing as DRM.

> Your words - my software can be copied even though I sell it. exactly the same with NFTs.

Ok, there's a semblance of an argument here I don't actually think is complete bullshit: If one can sell software without DRM, which can be copied by anyone, what exactly is being sold? To which I am forced to reply with things many NFT promoters say: supporting the developer, the concept of legitimacy, etc.

But, if that's all that an NFT is, then it is effectively just a donation. The problem is that NFTs claim to be much more than that, they claim to be a groundbreaking new technology that enables people to do things they never could do before[0], but that's obvious bullshit since people have been selling software in the same way I have sold software for 50 years.

If you're going to claim something like an NFT proving ownership, the only reason for that to have any value is if ownership confers some right or privilege that is otherwise lacking. For software, let's say it gives you access to direct support from the developer.

Again, the problem is that people already do that, and it doesn't require anything near as complicated as the entire NFT system! It's just a bog standard entry in a bog standard database that so and so owns a license. The decentralization buys nothing because if I stop supporting it no one will care that you have that license anyway. You could say that it allows someone to resell that license, but again we already do that today, and I could just as easily refuse to recognize a resold NFT as I could anyone's resold license because there's a history of ownership.

It really just looks like a giant scheme to try and convince people they're paying for something they're not.

[0] presumably not just having a new way to rip off rubes.

Re: NFT Replicas: An app to mint a replica of virtually any NFT

#207

Post by blueski »

kranke155 wrote: post #191
blueski wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which stand the best chance of going mainstream, with those who don't care about the underlying technology or price speculation?

NFTs. Gaming seems to be it.

But do digital goods in games really justify the Web2 -> Web3 iteration? Compared to Web2 bringing us Gmail, Maps, Facebook etc, feels a little anemic so far.

Re: NFT Replicas: An app to mint a replica of virtually any NFT

#208

Post by costcofries »

pyrale wrote: post #186
costcofries wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a hobbyist photographer. I have been publishing my photographs to unsplash for the last 4 years. I have over 100 photos on Adobe contributor. The former has delivered me ZERO inbound or monetary value, just over 3 million downloads of my work. The latter has given me returns I could buy coffee with. NFTs open a new World of opportunity for me. Not only can other humans easily collect, and compensate me for my wor…

What led you to make your photos available under a free sharing license, if you were expecting returns? > Not only can other humans easily collect, and compensate me for my work They could have done it before, what makes you think this technical change will make people want to fund artists more, beyond a momentary financial mania?

1. The goal with Unsplash has always been marketing exposure and inbound traffic, though unfortunately it just doesn't really exist. So, why are my photos still there? It feels counterproductive to remove something that has ranked so well, for so long, on the platform.

2. Just my opinion - I believe that over time people will increasingly value digital assets, I don't think we're even close to understanding their utility. NFT collectors are a growing segment for artists and things like virtual galleries will represent new places to showcase and share those collections.

Edit - I think people should make an effort to distinguish between visual and "technical or attributable" ownership. Too often these threads on NFTs are, "how do you own something if I can copy it" (the picture). That's missing the point. I don't care if you replicate my NFT and its visual identity, I will always be the owner of the underlying attribute and the evolution of that attribute.

Re: NFT Replicas: An app to mint a replica of virtually any NFT

#209

Post by zepto »

danuker wrote: post #203
zepto wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like you are in full agreement with me that the way we value NFTs is exactly equivalent to the valuing of Tulips during the bubble of 1637. > Had the tulips kept their scarcity, They did. > and had social interest remained at such high levels, couldn't it have kept its value? You mean if the tulip bubble had never burst would we still be paying 10 years of a skilled persons salary for one? Sure. It’s worth n…

> You mean if the tulip bubble had never burst? Sure. Exactly. There is no guarantee the NFT bubble will burst! People might keep enjoying these, and investing a significant portion of their lives.

Yes, just like with the Tulip Bubble! It might never have burst, and then we would never have needed NFTs because we’d still be trading tulips.

Re: NFT Replicas: An app to mint a replica of virtually any NFT

#210

Post by kranke155 »

zepto wrote: post #198
kranke155 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite a few since I’m a digital artist myself.

That isn’t an answer to my question, but it does explain your financial interest in defending NFTs throughout this thread.

You mean because they are good for me and they are good for 99% of the digital artists on this planet?
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