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A Survey of Programmers' Cannabis Usage, Perception, and Motivation

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Re: A Survey of Programmers' Cannabis Usage, Perception, and Motivation

#91
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's possible to have different reactions to the same drug :) As someone that is a heavy longtime user and recently diagnosed ADHD (there is a deep relationship between cannabis/substances and ADHD), I did find during the pandemic that smoking cannabis prior to writing software made it feel more productive. Given I couldn't prove that I was really more productive, and there are other costs, I decided against using it…

Also ADHD here. I find smoking a little helps significantly with turning off the distractions of Slack, email, reading interesting docs that cross my path. It's much easier to sit down, crank out a coding task, or jump into a deep debugging session. Not something I do often (or even occasionally), but I definitely don't think it's nonsense.

Undiagnosed but suspected ADHD here. With a bit of THC and some electronic music I can bang code out for hours completely in the zone. It's like I build a great mental model on what I'm working on and become very immersed in it. I can't do it too often as managers need their meetings and updates but it's the most "zen" I ever feel.

Re: A Survey of Programmers' Cannabis Usage, Perception, and Motivation

#92
What about common nootropics people take to get into 'programmer flow', like nicotine, lions mane, choline, caffeine, theanine, etc

Surely they're more effective than cannabis, which typically makes everything feel great, but in a sober frame of mind, and on hindsight, seem trivial and over-hyped when sober.

I've tried various nootropic 'blends' (stacks) over the years and they've all been great. Cannabis has its uses, like experiencing the various vibes and feel of a new city for the first time, or making a snowman when it's snowing, but it's not some panacea that makes you super-productive.

Not saying nootropics are a panacea either. You have to have the base multiplier before using nootropics, and already be in a flow state before getting any leverage from them. They don't automatically make you more productive or creative.

Re: A Survey of Programmers' Cannabis Usage, Perception, and Motivation

#93

I love smoking weed. I smoke pretty much every day. Just a little bit, a puff on the vape pen to get my groove going after work. I find it USELESS for problem solving or productivity, but hey: I don't need to be productive 24 hours a day. I just want something to take the edge off while I play a strategy game or fart around on a game prototype. I NEVER do it during work or when I have to drive. I started smoking weed…

> not funding drug lords. I avoid illegal drugs for this reason.

I hate to break it to you...

[Edit: it's best if I expand this comment. The people who currently sell "legal" weed whitewashed illegal operations and coordinated it with lawmakers to put them at the top. Chinese, oddly enough, play a big part at this, since we're on an anti-China bend right now it might be useful to know. This whole legal drug thing... no, it doesn't exist. Anyone thinking otherwise needs to get a wake up call. You're supporting massive drug lords that wear suits and work alongside law enforcement.]

Re: A Survey of Programmers' Cannabis Usage, Perception, and Motivation

#94

I got my three kids desks for christmas. Put them down to bed for the night and smoke a little weed. I was shocked how I couldn’t follow ikea desk instructions. Got frustrated and decided to try again sober. I was super shocked the next day how easy it was to follow when sober.

Drugs significantly alter cognitive processes and perceptions. I know that reads like a duh comment because that's literally why people take them, but it's amazing how frequently drugs users forget that the drugs alter their perceptions of how the drug is impacting their lives. I've fortunately only had a few of my friends succumb to addictions, but it was surreal to watch them remain convinced that the drugs (includ…

I think that people thinking that mind altering substances cannot be a useful tool should keep an open mind about it and let those people who are getting real results out of it keep doing their thing. And yes these people do exist. They are not going to be too open about it because of how taboo it is.

It’s well known that many of the greatest rock bands, highly productive mathematicians like Paul Erdos and comedians like George Carlin found great benefits in the disciplined use of mind altering substances. Not the addictive side which he regretted but the occasional one as a creative boost. Steve Jobs swore that it changed him. Not that it was perfect but he himself claimed it played a pivotal role in shaping him into the unique person that he was.

There are peer reviewed studies that show that psychedelics are among the most effective tools for treating depression. ADHD medication is prescribed quite often today and it’s a game changer for many people.

This is not without its dangers so proceed with caution and have other people in your life to check on you often. But let’s not deny the enormous power.

Why should some stimulants like caffeine or alcohol be permitted for responsible use while others have to be kept away ? Many of them are less addictive than either.

And besides far beyond any argument about utility it’s also one about aesthetics and spirituality. It’s an entire new dimension to the human experience.

If you don’t have a good track record of practicing moderation then stay away.

Re: A Survey of Programmers' Cannabis Usage, Perception, and Motivation

#95
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you working at 11pm?

During the day I just kind of loaf around, answer questions on slack, practice music, work out, etc. Late at night is the only time I can get any deep work done.

Wow, I'm the exact same way. I basically never get anything done before 12 but I'm perfectly happy working until 10pm. I wish I could work earlier because it really disrupts my family life.

Re: A Survey of Programmers' Cannabis Usage, Perception, and Motivation

#96

Anecdotal but I'm a "programmer" at BigTech™ and smoke all day every day, and at this point I can't tell if it helps me or hinders me, but when you smoke all the time, most of these stories you are hearing about in the comments don't happen. At this point in my life, it's just a little "pick me up". It's by no means a micro dose as I probably smoke a gram or 2 a day. But when you live high it's a different kind of be…

It's just lovely to hear how honest you are about your "situation". I enjoy smoking occasionally. I would say that sometimes I dismiss my thoughts too quickly when I'm sober, and rarely engage in thought process about particular details too intensively when I'm a bit off the ground. Otherwise it's great no matter what's being done, just need to be active.

Re: A Survey of Programmers' Cannabis Usage, Perception, and Motivation

#97

For me weed is not really something that actively aids in problem-solving or brainstorming, but rather acts as more of a motivation booster. When it's 11pm and I have a handful of less-demanding tasks to slog through, that's where I've found weed to be a lot of help. It helps make otherwise routine tasks more engaging. It even gives me sufficient motivation to actively refactor and improve parts of codebase that I mi…

Why are you working at 11pm?

Why do you care, and why is it important to the conversation? People work different hours. Some people choose to work those hours.

Re: A Survey of Programmers' Cannabis Usage, Perception, and Motivation

#98

> Furthermore, this cannabis usage is primarily motivated by a perceived enhancement to certain software development skills (such as brainstorming or getting into a programming zone) rather than medicinal reasons How can anyone who has tried it remotely believe this nonsense?

Remember cannabis has a range of effects, so there is no singular "it" to be tried. You can try one strain of cannabis and it will knock you out. No problem solving happening there. Then you can try another strain and your mind is flooded with ideas. Both are called "cannabis" but it's not the same drug really.

This has definitely been my experience. If you take an Indica gummy, you're most likely going to want to just lay on the couch and take a nap. On the other hand, I've had hybrids and sativas that will really lock me in on what I'm doing. I don't know if I could say I was more productive, but I definitely felt more focused.

Re: A Survey of Programmers' Cannabis Usage, Perception, and Motivation

#99

Is "programmer" a coherent group? How much does a Senior Engineer doing something like writing kernel code have in common with a fresh high school grad writing on something like a single threaded ASP/PHP codebase for an internal tool that has fewer than 100 daily users? I've done both of those jobs, and they both involve the same set of general tasks (requirements, brainstorming, coding). But in actuality they have a…

> Is "programmer" a coherent group? Well, it's a profession, so yes. > They have almost nothing in common. They both write code all day. Professionally. I'm sorry for the snark. You might be able to make a case that this study doesn't take income into account but that's not the comment you're making here.

You're taking this extremely personally. My comment is about a scientific paper, not about you.

> Well, it's a profession, so yes.

I meant from a scientific perspective. I.e., here's the point: "can we lump all programmers together, randomly sample, do a correlational study or survey, and draw conclusions about the underlying population?"

I assert that such studies will generally fail to replicate and will mostly tell you about the properties of a skewed convenience sample.

> They both write code all day. Professionally.

You could say the same thing about people who work in hospitals. Or people who work in offices. What's the difference between a novelist and a listicle author? They both write all day, professionally.

Heck, what's the difference between a journalist and a lawyer? Again, they both write natural language all day. Professionally.

And sometimes you can do studies that generalize. But, generally speaking, an empirical study about what makes novelists productive won't necessarily tell you how to make legal clerks more productive.

It's not income. In fact, I didn't even mention the salary of the senior engineer in my hypothetical! $FANCY_CO was supposed to be a sign-post for difficult problems and/or complex politics, not compensation. (The $10/hr web dev does sign-post the complexity of the work, and wasn't meant as a hyperbole... I started my career making $10/hr doing PHP dev for local businesses. It was really easy work. Requirements were simple, code was trivial, and there was never more than 1 counter-party. The job was low-paying for a reason.)

It's the type of work. I've done a lot of programming, of lots of varieties at nearly all pay scales. Here are some buckets:

There's a lot of programming that is easy and mechanical (at all payscales). There's a lot of programming that is extremely complex and requires intense symbolic/mathematical reasoning.

There's a lot of programming where the code is simple but you need to think long and hard about some complex technical topic separate from the code.

There's a lot of programming that is extremely social and requires an incredible amount of intentional interaction with customers or internal stakeholders.

These are the same job in the same sense that all medical professions are the same job or all people who write natural language all day have the same job.

There is a strong relationship between pay and the degree to which an inebriating drug would impair your ability to perform well. But it's of course not a perfect correlation. Some highly paid people do trivial work. Some low paid people do complex work.

Re: A Survey of Programmers' Cannabis Usage, Perception, and Motivation

#100

I got my three kids desks for christmas. Put them down to bed for the night and smoke a little weed. I was shocked how I couldn’t follow ikea desk instructions. Got frustrated and decided to try again sober. I was super shocked the next day how easy it was to follow when sober.

From my experience and some of the comments, it seems like a common thread is that weed is good for "clean the garage" tasks - not cognitively challenging but tedious, something you'd like to be distracted from - and not good for reading and retaining new information.

In programming terms, I think it's great for refactoring, or let's say working through a bunch of corner cases on some weird business data you have to parse, and terrible for learning a new framework or implementing something new you where you need to read several articles about something and combine them into a coherent plan.

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