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Grindr €6.5M fined for not collecting users’ valid consent for sharing data

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Re: Grindr €6.5M fined for not collecting users’ valid consent for sharing data

#41

Post by sdoering »

oytis wrote: post #15
j_san wrote: post #2

The Norwegian Data Protection Authority imposed a fine of €6,500,000 on Grindr for not collecting users' valid consent for sharing data with third parties for profiling and advertising purposes from the Grindr App. Particularly interesting is that it is not allowed under GDPR to have a free version of an app with the condition that it shares personal data (in this case for targeting and profiling for ads) as the cons…

Interesting indeed, it is what several German online newspapers do - they let you choose between a free version with tracking and a paid one without one. I find this argument a bit weird though: > Sharing Grindr's users personal data with advertising partners for online behavioural advertising purposes was not necessary for the performance of the Grindr's services. Charging money for your services is also not necessa…

Interesting, because said practice from German news sites seems to have the blessing of the data privacy authorities. Sadly I can't find the source. It must have been one of the data privacy newsletters I receive.

So the Norge argument here would go further and I would like to see this challenged to the European Court as this would provide a final verdict.

Currently I feel that different countries see these things quite a bit different.

On the other hand it would only mean that you can't have a free version refinanced through advertising, but would need to find other ways of converting users into paying customers while still providing a striped down free app for generating reach.

Re: Grindr €6.5M fined for not collecting users’ valid consent for sharing data

#42

Post by michaelbuckbee »

charcircuit wrote: post #23
jacquesm wrote: post #16

The sooner companies start to realize that personal data is a liability rather than an asset the better. Happy to see this fine, but as far as I'm concerned given the kind of data we're talking about here it should have been higher.

Or you could see it as operating in the EU is a liability. If you don't handle data in just the way they like they will come after you.

I feel that "just the way they like" is honestly a pretty low bar to clear and in general are common sense and respectful things that you should be doing with user data in the first place.

- Tell people up front what you will do with their data

- Let them opt out

- Track what services your own service uses (Ex: your website -> google analytics)

- If people want to know what data you have about them tell them

- If people want you to delete their data (and there is no legal obligation to keep it) delete their data

- Take reasonable steps to keep user data safe

In this case Grindr was passing (per the article): advertising ID, IP address, GPS, location, gender, age, device information and app name to a bunch of Ad Services with "no control".

So beyond just "handling data" Grindr was getting paid (ads) for sharing your data to companies that could then also turn around and do whatever they wanted with that data.

Re: Grindr €6.5M fined for not collecting users’ valid consent for sharing data

#43

Post by morbia »

999900000999 wrote: post #35
deepstack wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why people use apps website for personal stuff like that is beyond me. Just because some hip looking company is making an app/website doesn't mean it is secure or good data custodian.

I think what's particularly scary about Grindr is just how much trouble even being on an app like that can get someone in. For example, a colleague of mine is from a country where being LGBT is not really tolerated, in the United States he uses Grindr. I can imagine an oppressive government buying dating app data to blackmail their users. I noticed in the Tinder TOS thread people complaining about how impossible it i…

With respect, that is easy to say when ~50% of the population is a potential partner and is easily determinable. When you are gay and the majority of guys are straight, finding partners organically is near impossible (unless you're in a gay bar or something).

I'm not condoning Grindr's actions or that people shouldn't use it with care, but it really has become a key part of LGBT networking in the modern era.

Re: Grindr €6.5M fined for not collecting users’ valid consent for sharing data

#44

Post by hungryforcodes »

deepstack wrote: post #21
dade_ wrote: post #12

Good. Grindr is probably the best example of extremely high brand & network value vs shockingly poor security & application quality. The company demonstrates zero integrity and needs to be shut down or fined to death. It would send a proper warning to the industry, though long overdue.

Why people use apps website for personal stuff like that is beyond me. Just because some hip looking company is making an app/website doesn't mean it is secure or good data custodian.

How else are you supposed to get laid? I don't get this comment.

Re: Grindr €6.5M fined for not collecting users’ valid consent for sharing data

#45

Post by charcircuit »

breakfastduck wrote: post #37
charcircuit wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you could see it as operating in the EU is a liability. If you don't handle data in just the way they like they will come after you.

What aspect of GDPR is troublesome to you? Because 'dont abuse your ownership of personal data' is pretty much what it boils down to.

>What aspect of GDPR is troublesome to you?

It tries to restrict data. Information wants to be free. It has no owner.

Re: Grindr €6.5M fined for not collecting users’ valid consent for sharing data

#46

Post by KronisLV »

jacquesm wrote: post #30
charcircuit wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you could see it as operating in the EU is a liability. If you don't handle data in just the way they like they will come after you.

The EU is merely leading the way here, you can expect all of the developed world to have similar data protection laws on the books sooner or later. And if you think that treating data in the proper way is hard then you probably shouldn't be in business at all. Operating in the EU is not a liability if you treat your users data in a respectful and responsible way. Common sense alone would answer your questions on what…

> The EU is merely leading the way here, you can expect all of the developed world to have similar data protection laws on the books sooner or later.

While i do believe in being privacy conscious, i don't believe that this will be the case anytime soon (or at least until a generational shift happens). No business is interested in having to suddenly comply with such regulations and essentially no longer being able to utilize the data of individuals however they please.

Ergo, corporate interests will probably lead to lots of lobbying in this regard, just look at what happened with net neutrality and the advertising around it.

> Operating in the EU is not a liability if you treat your users data in a respectful and responsible way.

I think that all of this boils down to profit margins and viewing people as just numbers on a sheet somewhere, to extract wealth from. Just look at how scummy many of the cookie banner implementations are, designers being paid to implement as many dark patterns as possible, at least up until lawsuits started.

Re: Grindr €6.5M fined for not collecting users’ valid consent for sharing data

#47

Post by jacquesm »

charcircuit wrote: post #45
breakfastduck wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What aspect of GDPR is troublesome to you? Because 'dont abuse your ownership of personal data' is pretty much what it boils down to.

>What aspect of GDPR is troublesome to you? It tries to restrict data. Information wants to be free. It has no owner.

What is this, Slashdot ca 1996?

Private information in fact does have an owner: the user that it reflects on.

Re: Grindr €6.5M fined for not collecting users’ valid consent for sharing data

#48

Post by charcircuit »

michaelbuckbee wrote: post #42
charcircuit wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you could see it as operating in the EU is a liability. If you don't handle data in just the way they like they will come after you.

I feel that "just the way they like" is honestly a pretty low bar to clear and in general are common sense and respectful things that you should be doing with user data in the first place. - Tell people up front what you will do with their data - Let them opt out - Track what services your own service uses (Ex: your website -> google analytics) - If people want to know what data you have about them tell them - If peo…

>common sense and respectful things that you should be doing with user data in the first place

It's disrespectful to be nosey into what people are doing or to give them orders on what they can or can't do.

>So beyond just "handling data" Grindr was getting paid (ads) for sharing your data to companies that could then also turn around and do whatever they wanted with that data.

Good on them. They figured out a way to make money using information that they collected.

Re: Grindr €6.5M fined for not collecting users’ valid consent for sharing data

#49

Post by lettergram »

jacquesm wrote: post #16

The sooner companies start to realize that personal data is a liability rather than an asset the better. Happy to see this fine, but as far as I'm concerned given the kind of data we're talking about here it should have been higher.

A fine of this size indicates to me they should harvest and sell more data to increase profits. Tens of millions would still probably be worth it to Grindr.

Imagine your a government who doesn’t like homosexuals. Pay a fee - $5-$10m and you’ll get a list of users globally. Probably with travel patterns. Next time they enter the country, arrest or block visas before they enter.

Nah, this fine (which I don’t even know if they’ll pay) is the cost of doing business.

Re: Grindr €6.5M fined for not collecting users’ valid consent for sharing data

#50

Post by dade_ »

scrollaway wrote: post #24
deepstack wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why people use apps website for personal stuff like that is beyond me. Just because some hip looking company is making an app/website doesn't mean it is secure or good data custodian.

What’s your alternative? Clearly people use the app because the app answers a user need. So what’s your answer to the user need?

There are alternatives, but due to their bad business practices ( such as illegally collecting and selling their massive database of user data, and probably things I’d never think of) impossible to overtake. Consider existing brand awareness, and ongoing massive marketing spend.
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