Face recognition is being banned, but it’s still everywhere • Hacker News Board

Re: Face recognition is being banned, but it’s still everywhere

#51

Post by antris » Thu, Dec 23, 2021, 2:07 PM UTC

the_pwner224 wrote: post #39

andrepd wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also trivially easy to regulate. Mandate that all cameras recording public spaces record to encrypted storage. The key is in possession of the judicial system. It can only be decrypted and examined with a warrant , with probable cause, as you would need for wiretapping or raiding a home or searching someone's computer.

> The key is in possession of the judicial system. It can only be decrypted and examined with a warrant, with probable cause, as you would need for wiretapping That's how you end up with the NSA and CIA being inside every single camera in the country :)

As if they aren't already.

Re: Face recognition is being banned, but it’s still everywhere

#52

Post by hutzlibu » Thu, Dec 23, 2021, 2:09 PM UTC

the_pwner224 wrote: post #39

andrepd wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also trivially easy to regulate. Mandate that all cameras recording public spaces record to encrypted storage. The key is in possession of the judicial system. It can only be decrypted and examined with a warrant , with probable cause, as you would need for wiretapping or raiding a home or searching someone's computer.

> The key is in possession of the judicial system. It can only be decrypted and examined with a warrant, with probable cause, as you would need for wiretapping That's how you end up with the NSA and CIA being inside every single camera in the country :)

You can regulate the NSA and CIA too, if you really want.

Re: Face recognition is being banned, but it’s still everywhere

#53

Post by the_pwner224 » Thu, Dec 23, 2021, 2:11 PM UTC

hutzlibu wrote: post #52

the_pwner224 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The key is in possession of the judicial system. It can only be decrypted and examined with a warrant, with probable cause, as you would need for wiretapping That's how you end up with the NSA and CIA being inside every single camera in the country :)

You can regulate the NSA and CIA too, if you really want.

In theory, yes. In practice... no, unfortunately. The people of America seem to be fine with it.

Actually, as another commenter mentioned, they probably already are doing it. It would be stupid to think otherwise.

Re: Face recognition is being banned, but it’s still everywhere

#54

Post by hutzlibu » Thu, Dec 23, 2021, 2:14 PM UTC

trasz wrote: post #50

earthnail wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We banned mines, too, and it‘s been fairly successful. Not 100%, sure, but just imagine a world were mines weren’t banned, and what Europe and the US would look like, and you know the ban was very effective.

Most countries banned mines, but not US: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottawa_Treaty

To be fair, "most countries" does neither include china, nor russia, either.

Re: Face recognition is being banned, but it’s still everywhere

#55

Post by pueblito » Thu, Dec 23, 2021, 2:18 PM UTC

> CBP says it has processed more than 100 million travelers using face recognition and prevented more than 1,000 “imposters” from entering the US at air and land borders.

I wonder how many of those 1000 were incorrectly bounced back

Re: Face recognition is being banned, but it’s still everywhere

#56

Post by nirui » Thu, Dec 23, 2021, 2:22 PM UTC

bigodbiel wrote: post #14

Pre-crime facial recognition surveillance is authoritanism. Post-crime facial recognition of surveillance is investigative process. The cat is out of the bag, the only thing that prevents it's inevitable abuse is strict legal framework for its implementation

> strict legal framework for its implementation

And that might turn this technology into something that only big company can afford, artificially created a pro-monopoly environment.

The problem is complex.

Re: Face recognition is being banned, but it’s still everywhere

#57

Post by brk » Thu, Dec 23, 2021, 2:27 PM UTC

andrepd wrote: post #36

bigodbiel wrote: post #14

Pre-crime facial recognition surveillance is authoritanism. Post-crime facial recognition of surveillance is investigative process. The cat is out of the bag, the only thing that prevents it's inevitable abuse is strict legal framework for its implementation

It's also trivially easy to regulate. Mandate that all cameras recording public spaces record to encrypted storage. The key is in possession of the judicial system. It can only be decrypted and examined with a warrant , with probable cause, as you would need for wiretapping or raiding a home or searching someone's computer.

Hardly sounds trivial, and how would you ever enforce or manage that? Also, that is totally counter to the current (US) laws that basically state you can record video (not audio) of any publicly viewable areas freely.

What you propose would require massive changes to essentially any camera that has any part of its view covering an outdoor area, and probably many indoor areas (malls, etc.).

Also, face recognition typically runs on live streams to build indexes, so encrypting storage would not do much. You'd need to implement something like an HDMI-style encryption to control what devices/processors/whatever can connect to a live video stream from a camera to try and control exactly how the streams are processed.

Re: Face recognition is being banned, but it’s still everywhere

#58

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Dec 23, 2021, 2:30 PM UTC

bigodbiel wrote: post #14

Pre-crime facial recognition surveillance is authoritanism. Post-crime facial recognition of surveillance is investigative process. The cat is out of the bag, the only thing that prevents it's inevitable abuse is strict legal framework for its implementation

[deleted]

Re: Face recognition is being banned, but it’s still everywhere

#59

Post by brk » Thu, Dec 23, 2021, 2:32 PM UTC

1cvmask wrote: post #6

London is the surveillance capital of the world: London is often called the CCTV capital of the world, and for good reason. The city is home to hundreds of thousands of CCTV cameras, and the average Londoner is caught on CCTV 300 times a day. https://www.cctv.co.uk/how-many-cctv-cameras-are-there-in-lo... Facial recognition software is being integrated now into this network. No one seems to mind at all. It seems that…

* London is the surveillance capital of the world*

That's only because China does not release much information publicly about their surveillance systems, but many parts of China are most likely far more surveilled than London.

Re: Face recognition is being banned, but it’s still everywhere

#60

Post by karmicthreat » Thu, Dec 23, 2021, 2:34 PM UTC

andrepd wrote: post #36

bigodbiel wrote: post #14

Pre-crime facial recognition surveillance is authoritanism. Post-crime facial recognition of surveillance is investigative process. The cat is out of the bag, the only thing that prevents it's inevitable abuse is strict legal framework for its implementation

It's also trivially easy to regulate. Mandate that all cameras recording public spaces record to encrypted storage. The key is in possession of the judicial system. It can only be decrypted and examined with a warrant , with probable cause, as you would need for wiretapping or raiding a home or searching someone's computer.

If someone throws a rock through a window, why shouldn't it be legal to run the surveillance through facial recognition? A crime was committed, we have a pic of the perpetrator.