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Devon calls victory in 27-year war on termites

theguardian.com

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Re: Devon calls victory in 27-year war on termites

#51

Post by culi »

akie wrote: post #48
Noumenon72 wrote: post #35

It's nice that a government program actually ever solved the problem it was meant to address and shut down, but I hope they didn't do it too soon: > After no signs of termite activity were detected for the past 10 years, the Saunton termite colony has officially been declared dead > There have been false dawns before in this battle of the beasties. Going into the new millennium there were no sightings of the termites…

> It's nice that a government program actually ever solved the problem it was meant to address and shut down This site can be so exhausting. Government is not necessarily the enemy. Stop seeing everything through those glasses, please. Government is the organization we created to do things together. That's all it is. Stop implying that it's always the enemy and that everything the government does is bound to end in f…

> Government is the organization we created to do things together. That's all it is

Is this really what you believe? What role does power play in the formation of governments?

Re: Devon calls victory in 27-year war on termites

#52

Post by throwawaylinux »

fisherjeff wrote: post #47
throwawaylinux wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand how what you wrote addresses my comment. I listed some groups who might be motivated to do it, and gave an example of somewhat similar private groups organizing to take action that collectively benefit their member groups with industry associations that are not a government. > Granted, but who is going to spearhead such an effort? I suppose this is a rhetorical question, which does not help me unde…

Home insurers have three options, as I see it: 1) Pay for a super expensive termite remediation on someone’s property in hopes that it will guarantee that other customers’ properties won’t get termites 2) Raise premiums to account for termite infestation risk 3) Deny termite damage claims There’s only one thing on that list I can’t imagine them doing

I'm not going to get too far into hypotheticals about who exactly would end up losing out, I gave some examples of groups (which included not only insurance industry but others) who would plausibly have a profit motive to address this problem, and an example of another case where similar did happen. You don't think the home insurance industry would be made to pay for these costs, okay without knowing what UK insurance policies and laws look like maybe that is the case, but it's sort of avoiding what I'm asking because then then we know the building industry or home or other property owner groups will be out of pocket so why would they not organize and take action?

I never said I had a crystal ball and could tell you that would happen, or claim that private is better than government (which I assume is what is upsetting people who are reading that into it). Read the post I originally replied to and look at the context.

If you did want to get into government vs private, there are plenty of examples of government failure to deal with introduced and other invasive pest species, not to mention countless examples of large scale collective organization or lack thereof which have been spectacular failures of government incompetence and corruption to the detriment of the public good everywhere you look. Not just in invasive species control failures, but from wars to healthcare to drug policy to homelessness to climate change. So anecdotes won't be enough to demonstrate the case one way or the other, unfortunately.

Re: Devon calls victory in 27-year war on termites

#54

Post by globular-toast »

bell-cot wrote: post #4

For that long and "bloody-minded" an eradication effort, in so small an area (100m long, 30m deep) - it seems like it'd have been far quicker and cheaper to (say) saturate the ground with liquid nitrogen. (Assuming that the termites would all either freeze, or die for lack of oxygen.)

I suspect they know more about it than you. This worked. For the first time in history.

Re: Devon calls victory in 27-year war on termites

#55

Post by Salgat »

bell-cot wrote: post #4

For that long and "bloody-minded" an eradication effort, in so small an area (100m long, 30m deep) - it seems like it'd have been far quicker and cheaper to (say) saturate the ground with liquid nitrogen. (Assuming that the termites would all either freeze, or die for lack of oxygen.)

I was thinking hydrogen peroxide, since it seeps into the ground just like water and decays into water. Also I imagine it's much cheaper than liquid nitrogen.

Re: Devon calls victory in 27-year war on termites

#56

Post by bell-cot »

Salgat wrote: post #55
bell-cot wrote: post #4

For that long and "bloody-minded" an eradication effort, in so small an area (100m long, 30m deep) - it seems like it'd have been far quicker and cheaper to (say) saturate the ground with liquid nitrogen. (Assuming that the termites would all either freeze, or die for lack of oxygen.)

I was thinking hydrogen peroxide, since it seeps into the ground just like water and decays into water. Also I imagine it's much cheaper than liquid nitrogen.

That could be cool on a small scale. But H2O2 decays into H2O and oxygen, and is a very reactive oxidizer. With organic matter in the soil, it will produce all sorts of interesting chemicals. Those will end up in the groundwater.

(Or, just look at the fire diamond for H2O2. Proposing to bring tons of that stuff into a residential area would not be popular.)

Re: Devon calls victory in 27-year war on termites

#57

Post by SllX »

nextaccountic wrote: post #46
SllX wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s called self-government, which is not merely electing some mooks to send to some distant capital to professionally practice legislation (which is all they will ever do in their time there, and so will always be seeking to innovate in this space for good or for ill). It’s also taking an interest in you and yours and cooperating with your neighbors to resolve common issues, and where and when you have conflicting i…

This is how local governments should be run. Not just elect officials, but have the citizens participate in the day-to-day affairs.

I have to be pedantic about this distinction because otherwise I feel like my point will be lost.

Not local government, self-government. Local government is still politicians and bureaucrats. Self-government is the exercise of your own political power, private property rights and capabilities and rights as a citizen. These are not limited to ticking some names on a ballot once or twice a year.

Re: Devon calls victory in 27-year war on termites

#59

Post by gerdesj »

bell-cot wrote: post #39
gerdesj wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds quite convincing until you actually try to do it 8) Liquid N is bloody cold until it hits the environment (for want of a better word). Initially I thought of going in with boiling water but that suffers from the same problem - that there bloody equilibrium thingie. I'd also look into something like liquid grout. You use that (I'm a Civ Eng grad, IT company owner) to stabilize ground. That depends a lot on…

Neither the LN nor the boiling water would need to literally saturate the soil. Nor reach thermal equilibrium (-196C for LN, 100C for boiling water.) So long as conditions (temperature, O2 availability, etc.) in every cc of the targeted volume were nicely beyond what any termite could survive, that'd be enough. LN would plausibly 1) create a long-lived hypoxic zone, and 2) have minimal effects on the groundwater, so…

It's just as well you and I were not appointed to deal with this. It could have got ugly.

Let's start off with demolishing the houses with a controlled explosion that just implodes the structures so that we don't fire termites off into the blue. Carefully distribute the house remains to the perimeter. All crossings of the perimeter will involve a thorough decontamination.

Now we drill two metre (6'ish) deep holes every two metres with a diameter of at least 32mm (1.25"). Then we treat the problem:

Find the perimeter of infestation (may have to destroy more properties). Create a 3m (10') deep trench, 30cm (12") wide along the entire perimeter. Fill the trench with standard 1-2-3 conc. Make sure it is vibrated properly and use a viscosity admix. to ensure the trench is properly filled.

We'll need some heavy lift helis eg Chinooks - several are available from the Army and RAF or perhaps EH101 based jobbies - Army. We'll also need some containers and I think a 8 cu yard skip ie a standard builder's skip will do nicely. Yes we do have a wacky approach to units here in the UK. Fill the skips with boiling water and use the helis to drop the water on the area from above. Consider salting the water to lower the boiling point and make it more toxic in an environmentally responsible way.

Finally we go in with a fleet of ready mix lorries with pumps and long hoses. We pump a cementitious slurry into the holes and then finish with a capping slab of conc as required to support subsequent structures.

I'm actually half Devonian (mum born in Dartmouth) and I studied Civ Eng in Plymouth. I now live next door in Somerset.

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