Buying Influence: How China manipulates Facebook and Twitter • Hacker News Board

Re: Buying Influence: How China manipulates Facebook and Twitter

#161

Post by 323 » Wed, Dec 22, 2021, 9:37 PM UTC

uniqueuid wrote: post #82

323 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You confuse "legal and regulated" with "transparent to the public". When Ford pays money to product place one of it's cars in a movie, that might be declared and invoiced in some contract, but you as a film watcher will never know it (unless they make a point of announcing it). So please explain how movie product placement is not covert. The same with PR, think tanks, and a lot of advertising.

I am not confusing these terms. As usual, they represent a spectrum of desirability, harm, regulation and sanctions. Complete transparency to the public is of course an utopian goal. The key here is that political influence is handled very differently from commercial influence. Regulation of un-branded advertisements vary by country with some being more lenient and others more strict. But political content is frequen…

Commercial content can be political content these days.

Product placing a Ford truck and guns versus a Tesla car and rainbow t-shirts.

Re: Buying Influence: How China manipulates Facebook and Twitter

#162

Post by pphysch » Wed, Dec 22, 2021, 9:38 PM UTC

tiahura wrote: post #129

johnsolo1701 wrote: post #57

When something negative about China is posted: "Everyone does it!" When something negative about the US is posted: "Downfall of an empire!"

Why wouldn’t you have high expectations of the US and low expectations of China? The rise of King Xi should demonstrate that culturally China is still hundreds of years behind the West.

What compelled you to make such a wildly uninformed and bigoted comment?

Re: Buying Influence: How China manipulates Facebook and Twitter

#163

Post by baby » Wed, Dec 22, 2021, 9:38 PM UTC

boznz wrote: post #60

echelon wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Same in Europe and Australasia but without the guns.

The Americans really love their guns don't they

Re: Buying Influence: How China manipulates Facebook and Twitter

#164

Post by jessaustin » Wed, Dec 22, 2021, 9:38 PM UTC

papertokyo wrote: post #79

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.state.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Pillars-of-... https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/sites/default/files/docu... > the Committee found ample evidence to suggest that the Russian government was developing and implementing capabilities to interfere in the 2016 elections, including undermining confidence in U.S. democratic institutions and voting processes. Calling it hysteria is counterproductive. With t…

Looking at the 2020 elections and aftermath, it seems they were highly successful in undermining confidence in the election process.

They were wise to keep Maddow et al. on the "don't trust elections" beat for the full four years Trump was in office.

Re: Buying Influence: How China manipulates Facebook and Twitter

#165

Post by Syonyk » Wed, Dec 22, 2021, 9:39 PM UTC

dominotw wrote: post #145

nitrogen wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The existence of worse problems does not make other problems go away. It's reasonable and desirable to strive for a better future no matter how good the present is.

Wouldn't that imply people are forever oppressed because things can be better.

If your line of work is "being one of those who can properly identify and point out oppression," and then "sell training/books/seminars/etc to make people feel like they're doing something to resolve it," it would be bad for business to actually change the state of things.

Greer did some writing on this state of things, and termed it "The Rescue Game" [0].

It's notably static, in that the people who claim the high position in the game really don't want to be removed from that position.

[0]: https://www.resilience.org/stories/2016-04-14/american-narra...

Re: Buying Influence: How China manipulates Facebook and Twitter

#166

Post by pphysch » Wed, Dec 22, 2021, 9:40 PM UTC

creato wrote: post #10

tehjoker wrote: post #5

Doesn't the US broadcast regime change propaganda into the country via Radio Free Asia / Radio Free Liberty etc?

Radio Free Asia/Liberty/etc. don't pretend to be someone else while they are broadcasting.

And yet, mysteriously, Twitter doesn't label them as "State-affiliated media" like it does with the Big Bad Guys.

Re: Buying Influence: How China manipulates Facebook and Twitter

#167

Post by catillac » Wed, Dec 22, 2021, 9:40 PM UTC

88840-8855 wrote: post #153

Permit wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> i wonder how people here inte west think of china. do you really think that GESTAPO will come and beat the shit out of you just because you were talking shit? I have no idea what it is like generally, but this video[1] (which I admittedly cannot confirm the authenticity of) depicts a man who has been arrested for comments he made on social media. He is chained to the table and his arms are restricted as he tries to…

edit

This happens quite a lot, the answer is yes. One of the travesties of the American system though is that it’s often these videos that cause justice to be done when it would not be done otherwise.

Re: Buying Influence: How China manipulates Facebook and Twitter

#168

Post by dnautics » Wed, Dec 22, 2021, 9:40 PM UTC

commandlinefan wrote: post #155

echelon wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

> Americans can say anything Well, less so these days than 20 or even 10 years ago - the suppression just doesn't come from the government now. There are a lot of things you really can't say in America and there are a lot more of them than there used to be.

that's an entirely fair criticism, but peer-led opinion suppression is via taboo and taboos are transient and organically go through cultural waves -- have been for centuries. When a state starts doing it it usually requires catastrophic change that, maybe if you're lucky, won't hurt too many people -- but it's almost always painful, and sudden.

Re: Buying Influence: How China manipulates Facebook and Twitter

#169

Post by Permit » Wed, Dec 22, 2021, 9:41 PM UTC

88840-8855 wrote: post #153

Permit wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> i wonder how people here inte west think of china. do you really think that GESTAPO will come and beat the shit out of you just because you were talking shit? I have no idea what it is like generally, but this video[1] (which I admittedly cannot confirm the authenticity of) depicts a man who has been arrested for comments he made on social media. He is chained to the table and his arms are restricted as he tries to…

edit

If someone in this thread claims otherwise, you should post those videos.

I was responding to this point:

> i wonder how people here inte west think of china. do you really think that GESTAPO will come and beat the shit out of you just because you were talking shit?

My point is that it does appear that the police in China will come and arrest you if you speak negatively about them. My point is not "The American system is better than the Chinese system". We should speak candidly and truthfully about the failings of each system.

Does that make sense?

Edit: I just now realize you were the original poster. You made a comparison between Germany and China and when an inconsistency was pointed out to you, you responded by pointing out faults in the American justice system.

It would likely do you good to reflect on this. When flaws with China are pointed out, why would you jump to point out wrongdoings in America? It had as much relevance as pointing out police brutality in Brazil or some other unrelated country. You should try to better understand why you have reacted this way.

Re: Buying Influence: How China manipulates Facebook and Twitter

#170

Post by nebula8804 » Wed, Dec 22, 2021, 9:41 PM UTC

echelon wrote: post #51

gentleman11 wrote: post #21

Imagine living somewhere like China and not liking it. It would be hellish, you couldn’t even talk about it without a police visit or your boss passing trouble along to you. A giant human spirit grinder

Quoted post unavailable.

>America isn't perfect, but it's pretty damned good.

And this is because of generations who got blasted for fighting against the current norms at the time. Whether it was fighting against slave holders or during times like the civil rights era when the southerners were willing to make some compromises but in regards to full civil rights they pushed back and said "lets not move too fast on this, its too much change too quickly". No, it took the real brave people who were that generations extremists to drag the country kicking and screaming in to the future. Even then the rebels were only successful because of circumstances beyond their control (eg. JFK assassination paved the way for pushing the civil rights bill through).

So yeah you seem to be implying that the Americans whining and complaining today should look at places like China and see how good they have it(the standard right wing trope displayed on places like the Joe Rogan podcast) however you fail to see how this messy process that unfortunately involves things like wokeism, BLM and this constant extreme push for other real progressive causes will hopefully eventually lead to an America that the next generation can say with more confidence that "America isn't perfect, but it's pretty damned good."