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Seriously, stop with the booth babes

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Re: Seriously, stop with the booth babes

#61

Post by vacri »

shawnee_ wrote: post #3

Learned this the hard way. Back when LinuxCon was still called LinuxCon, I made the mistake of making a beeline to the first "booth" I saw that was manned by a fellow female. I studied the setup, ascertained what kind of hardware being shown off by this particular vendor, and proceeded to inquire along the line of shop talk. Although I don't remember exactly what I asked her, this was the gist of our exchange. BB: "I…

A friend of mine went to linux.conf.au and went along to one of the 'women in open source' conferences. At the start of the conference, the presenter was talking about how insidious sexism is in the tech industry and what an uphill battle it is to fight against it. She asked for the women in the room to raise their hands if they feel they've encountered sexism holding them back in their careers.

My friend raised her hand - and in horror, the presenter recognised her as the woman she'd assumed was someone's partner back at the registration desk and tried to get to sign the partner's program (=daily things to do while your techy partner is doing the conference). Yes, the female anti-sexism speaker had herself assumed a female delegate was merely a hanger-on, solely because of her gender.

It's both "ha ha" funny and disturbing funny, that sexism is so ingrained that someone who should absolutely know better still fell prey to it.

Re: Seriously, stop with the booth babes

#62

Post by amirmc »

wccrawford wrote: post #59
count wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not for you. They're for the huge majority of bozos, who, unlike you, are only at the conference because it's a junket and some free time away from work. Eye candy is a huge plus.

By that logic, aren't the booth babes just as pointless? If the idea is to drive sales, and those people aren't there to make purchasing decisions, then it's a lost cause.

> those people aren't there to make purchasing decisions

He didn't say they couldn't make purchasing decisions. Besides, there's still likely to be some value in being front-of-mind when people go back to their companies.

Re: Seriously, stop with the booth babes

#63

Post by sp332 »

matusz13 wrote: post #4

The author only reinforces the fact that booth babes work. His argument that he hates them because he falls for them would probably only get me to consider using booth babes in the future. Sure, the approach is kind of 'Don Draper' but considering the audience... it's probably a viable marketing approach. There's probably an argument there about looking for original marketing approaches, as booth babes are an old and…

The problem is that it's impossible to tell the knowledgeable ones from the BBs, so it's easier to ignore all the women at the booths. That doesn't help anybody.

This is true whether or not you "fall for" the BBs.

Re: Seriously, stop with the booth babes

#64

Post by sp332 »

gavanwoolery wrote: post #46

Let's speculate. Let us say that we were to end all booth babe jobs tomorrow. Result: 1000s of women lose a job that brings them some extra (and perhaps needed) cash. But we all get to feel better about ourselves. Except for the women, because they have one less source of income. Alternative: we embrace the fact that we are sexual beings. Maybe sex appeal does not work on everyone, but it is a tried and true form of…

The main problem is using them at a trade conference. They are basically dead weight if they don't know anything about the products. This article isn't about being demeaning, but about encouraging anti-women bias in tech circles. BBs are hurting our society.

Re: Seriously, stop with the booth babes

#65

Post by dkersten »

prodigal_erik wrote: post #27
dmor wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for making the main point clear, I want to chime in here as a woman and someone who has represented my company from very early on at trade shows (and does to this day). In the telecom industry in particular these booth babes run rampant, they literally provide you with a form when you register to exhibit asking if you want to hire models. At one event a couple years ago, a guy came over to talk with our CTO (a…

Apart from the brain-dead flirting efforts, that heels-and-skirt-suit effect doesn't sound any different than my reaction to men in suits. If I want to find a clue, I look past the guy whose job involves showing up in a costume chosen in hopes I'm easily manipulated. But then I don't frequent trade shows, so I don't know how many nerds have enough clout to show up dressed normally but not enough to just stay home.

Since dmor mentioned the telecom industry, let me just say that when I attended the GSMA Mobile World Congress in Barcelona, everybody (except booth babes) was wearing suits or other "business attire" - technies, sales, marketing, whatever. (I was very clearly an engineer and was there to answer technical questions, and I wore a suit).

[OT: after having been to the trade show, I still don't know what CBOSS do, besides hire lots of models to man their stand...]

Re: Seriously, stop with the booth babes

#66

Post by dkersten »

adw wrote: post #52
dmor wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wear a suit because it shows I give a damn, and occasionally to look a little older. Many people in startups wear costumes too, just a different sort for a different purpose. I realize that people in tech generally avoid "suits", but there is a time and place for dressing up and there are certain industries where you need to wear the uniform to play the game. Maybe it works to show up in flip flops as the founder o…

I like wearing suits. I even like wearing ties. I don't mean anything by it, I just like tailored stuff. It looks good! It's highly evolved to maximise what men have got. But: if I wore one to most of my meetings, or to work, people'd ask questions or make a bunch of unfounded assumptions, so I don't. It's a myth that technical communities don't care about clothes. They do - it's just they send a very particular set…

A tailored well fitting suit is also extremely comfortable.

I bought a suit when I was in Syria two years ago and its probably the most comfortable piece of clothing I own.

Re: Seriously, stop with the booth babes

#67

Post by [deleted] »

sp332 wrote: post #64
gavanwoolery wrote: post #46

Let's speculate. Let us say that we were to end all booth babe jobs tomorrow. Result: 1000s of women lose a job that brings them some extra (and perhaps needed) cash. But we all get to feel better about ourselves. Except for the women, because they have one less source of income. Alternative: we embrace the fact that we are sexual beings. Maybe sex appeal does not work on everyone, but it is a tried and true form of…

The main problem is using them at a trade conference. They are basically dead weight if they don't know anything about the products. This article isn't about being demeaning, but about encouraging anti-women bias in tech circles. BBs are hurting our society.

[deleted]

Re: Seriously, stop with the booth babes

#68

Post by gavanwoolery »

sp332 wrote: post #64
gavanwoolery wrote: post #46

Let's speculate. Let us say that we were to end all booth babe jobs tomorrow. Result: 1000s of women lose a job that brings them some extra (and perhaps needed) cash. But we all get to feel better about ourselves. Except for the women, because they have one less source of income. Alternative: we embrace the fact that we are sexual beings. Maybe sex appeal does not work on everyone, but it is a tried and true form of…

The main problem is using them at a trade conference. They are basically dead weight if they don't know anything about the products. This article isn't about being demeaning, but about encouraging anti-women bias in tech circles. BBs are hurting our society.

Call it whatever you want, being demeaning, bias, objectification, I don't care - the article has a weak argument.

"This is wrong on every level, and it’s an insidious form of objectifying women"

"By being conditioned to treat women as intellectually inferior to men, we are actively discouraging them from joining our environment"

I love it when people make up non-existent problems. The booth babes could care less - they are getting paid. No one is twisting their arm, and they probably don't want you to feel "sorry" for them. Women have suffrage, that battle is long over, get over it.

He is arguing that we should not have booth babes because they do not know anything about the product, which actually is not true -- plenty of booth babes are actually required to memorize many facts about the product. So in essence, the author is the one being sexist, assuming right away that the booth babes know nothing about it. And his so-called "solution" is just to get rid of them? Why stop there? We should get rid of cheerleaders too, right? Because they just get in the way of the football game. Its not like people benefit from these jobs...oh no.

Re: Seriously, stop with the booth babes

#69

Post by acdha »

biot wrote: post #56

> Ask why their company wastes everyone’s time and their investors’ money using > people who provide no value. There's a few statements there which aren't backed up by references. Which is cheaper: hiring extra people to staff a conference or flying out a bunch of $100/hr engineers, putting them up in hotels, and so on? I would think it's a waste of money to bring out the engineers. Not only in terms of expenses but…

Also note that there are intermediate levels: we used to send tech support & systems engineers out rather than the core developers. They were used to talking to customers, knew enough to answer most questions and when they didn't could generate ensure that the question going back was well formed and went to the right person.

Re: Seriously, stop with the booth babes

#70

Post by burgerbrain »

tomjen3 wrote: post #57
burgerbrain wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my personal experience, the Scandinavian cultures do it better by simply not making a big deal out of it. When you teach all your children from a young age that nudity is naughty and sexuality doesn't exist, you shouldn't be surprised when they grow up ill equipped to handle such things maturely.

I am from Scandinavia and that's not really true. We like naked females as much as everybody else and will do as many stupid things to get them. What we don't have is a bunch of extremely religious people with power so the contrast makes it seem more easy going.

Fair enough. Still a huge improvement though if you ask me ;)
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