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Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes (2013)

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Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes (2013)

#111

Post by marsvin »

AussieWog93 wrote: post #65
dzhiurgis wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Women can be very fertile right after birth, although most don’t get their periods for months while breastfeeding. We got like 100 condoms after birth, which would mean years of sex given the stress and discomfort after birth.

>We got like 100 condoms after birth, which would mean years of sex given the stress and discomfort after birth. Are you speaking from experience or is this just your expectation? My wife and I were back to normal pretty much as soon as everything healed up (4-6 weeks or so)

No matter how fast you'll use those rubbers, it's also good for hygienic reasons. Would be very annoying to get UTI or such when there is a new humanbeing to be taken care of.

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes (2013)

#112

Post by Freak_NL »

params wrote: post #89
cranekam wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your baby is due in 4 weeks it’s likely it’ll be quite a few months until a crib is needed. The first months will pass in a tired blur of the baby sleeping only on you or your partner, followed waking up the second you try to put them on anything else. Once they use a crib though just buy one — you won’t have time to build and it’s important to make it safe.

That's not the case for all babies, imho they come with different habits right from the start. I have ~10 kids in my closest family, all with different sleeping habits.

I would think it's not the case for the majority of babies even. Some parents do keep the baby constantly at their side when sleeping and some are doing that weird co-sleeping thing with a raised cot right next to their own, but most parents (in modern societies where cots are used) seem to just do the usual: give the child their own place to sleep and let them develop a healthy sleeping habit right from the start.

We had our son in his own cot in his own room at night (within hearing range obviously) and in a wicker cradle during the day. We moved to an infant bed as he grew. He moved to a normal size bed a few months ago at 2½ (rather soon, but he's tall and outgrew the infant bed). He's a good sleeper.

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes (2013)

#113

Post by fsloth »

xxs wrote: post #110
thow-58d4e8b wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, this rags to riches story is just a myth that Finland (the same goes for Norway) tell to themselves. In reality, in the early 1900s, Finland was poorer than Western Europe and some British colonies, but richer than just about any other place in the world. Richer than Japan, Spain, Portugal, Greece, Poland - and about as rich as Austria or Italy. Fast-forward to 2021 - Finland is poorer than Western Europe and som…

How do you define rich: currently Finland has higher GDP per capita than Germany, France and the UK... and well Norway is well ahead of the most West Europe (lots to do with the oil but still).

For example, Finland has very low amount of capital. GDP is the revenue stream. Amount of capital reflects actual wealth and potential for return of investments.

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes (2013)

#114

Post by fsloth »

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote: post #100
burntoutfire wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least four factors differentiate the two: 1. Finland had only one scary and ravenous empire near its border. Poland had two: Russia and Germany/Prussia, or even three, if you count the Austro-Hungarians. 2. Finland is much easier to defend. 3. Finland was a free, market-based country since WWII, whereas Poland had to implement the insane communist policies. So, essentially Finland had a 45-year head start over Pol…

Finland spent many years as part of Russian Empire, but only one year under communist rule. Poland spent 50 years under the communists. Two generations of brain washing and negative selection.

"Finland spent many years as part of Russian Empire"

Yes - and no. Legally Finland was a Grand Duchy, under the direct ownership of the Czar (who was the duke of Finland) - hence Finland was not actually part of the Russian state, even though it had the same head of state, but had parallel autonomous state functions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Duchy_of_Finland

At the end of 19th century Russian state started to abhor this autonomy, but actual dissolution of the independent state did not have time to take place before the Russian revolution. As czar died with no obvious inheritors, Finland guessed it was now independent and the Soviet state acknowledged it as such.

So Finland became independent from a luck of legalese basically, and the fact that Soviet state had other problems to deal with than a small parcel of land. The blood price for independence was paid later in civil war and in 2nd world war.

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes (2013)

#115

Post by leokennis »

On the same subject, I only recently came to know that "Kraamzorg" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kraamzorg) is not or hardly offered in other countries.

When you become parents (whether that is for the first or the nth time), a specialized nurse will visit your home for 24-80 hours spread over multiple days to help with anything required. If it's your first, she/he will mainly focus on teaching (how to bathe a baby, how to give breastfeeding etc.). If it's your second or more, the focus will be more on keeping the house tidy (vacuuming, cleaning up) and helping with the older kids (getting them from school etc.). And all the while, the kraamzorger will keep a log of the baby (weight, temperature, how often it poops and pees etc.) to make sure it's healthy.

Seriously, I don't know how I would have handled having my first newborn without the hands-on-live-counseling kraamzorg provides.

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes (2013)

#116

Post by iso1631 »

test1235 wrote: post #104
shifty1 wrote: post #95

Scotland also has a very similar baby box, introduced a few years ago due to the success of the Finnish one. https://www.mygov.scot/baby-box Content of the box: https://www.parentclub.scot/baby-box Study on impact of the box: https://www.gov.scot/publications/baby-box-evaluation/pages/...

We got a one of these in Scotland, and I have to say a few years on, we're only just getting rid of the last of the items. Some items were arguably more useful than others (but I think the inventory is reviewed and updated constantly) - we never used the baby box as intended and it could be argued that we never really needed the support, but I can't understand the people who would argue against such an initiative. Pe…

> People in this country were up in arms when this was first suggested ... bristling with the absolute indignity at the thought of money being spent to help others.

Really? At General Elections Scotland tends to vote dramatically in favour of parties that do redistribution, far more than the rest of the UK

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes (2013)

#117

Post by InsomniacL »

leokennis wrote: post #115

On the same subject, I only recently came to know that "Kraamzorg" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kraamzorg ) is not or hardly offered in other countries. When you become parents (whether that is for the first or the nth time), a specialized nurse will visit your home for 24-80 hours spread over multiple days to help with anything required. If it's your first, she/he will mainly focus on teaching (how to bathe a bab…

Apparently in America it can cost tens of thousands of dollars to give birth in a hospital.

Also, 'skin-on-skin' contact after giving birth is a chargeable extra.

We don't know how fortunate we are here in the UK with the NHS.

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes (2013)

#118

Post by CapitalistCartr »

geoduck14 wrote: post #42
songzme wrote: post #30

My baby is due in 4 weeks. My wife and I shopped for weeks trying to buy a 2nd hand crib that was affordable (We ended up getting one for free from a neighbor on nextdoor). Never did it cross my mind that I could just use a cardboard box! I will definitely make a cardboard box for my upcoming baby, use it as much as I can, and see if I could get by without a crib! Perfect DIY project for a stay home dad, cribs always…

I have several kids. Let me share some experiences with you: A card board box is probably fine starting out, but your baby will out grow it. The sleeping container should have walls high enough to prevent him/her from climbing out - this might take 9 months, but younwill want it You NEED to remove all fluf and excess padding in your DIY "crib". Babies can suffocate on cute "fluffy" blankets If you build a wooden crib…

Pack 'n Plays are a Godsend. Whomever invented them is a saint, and every first-time parent should be issued one.

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes (2013)

#119

Post by daleharvey »

iso1631 wrote: post #116
test1235 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We got a one of these in Scotland, and I have to say a few years on, we're only just getting rid of the last of the items. Some items were arguably more useful than others (but I think the inventory is reviewed and updated constantly) - we never used the baby box as intended and it could be argued that we never really needed the support, but I can't understand the people who would argue against such an initiative. Pe…

> People in this country were up in arms when this was first suggested ... bristling with the absolute indignity at the thought of money being spent to help others. Really? At General Elections Scotland tends to vote dramatically in favour of parties that do redistribution, far more than the rest of the UK

The people who were up in arms about it lose heavily in the elections however given that they are generally unionists they are given extremely generous coverage by our media who are are almost entirely pro union.

I also got one of these in Scotland and found it very reassuring and helpful, you could see almost all the other children around were using the same clothes / toys etc.

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes (2013)

#120

Post by rich_sasha »

nickff wrote: post #98
rich_sasha wrote: post #96

I’m perpetually amazed how well Finland is ran. It’s just a country with its shit frozen together. It’s a particular comparison point for me, as it has a similar (vaguely) recent history to Poland, having regained its independence in 1918, and living in Russia’s shadow most of that time. The difficult, exploitative years under the Russian thumb are usually blamed for most of the mess in Poland right now. Clearly ther…

> "It’s a particular comparison point for me, as it has a similar (vaguely) recent history to Poland, having regained its independence in 1918, and living in Russia’s shadow most of that time. The difficult, exploitative years under the Russian thumb are usually blamed for most of the mess in Poland right now. Clearly there is another way." Poland seems to be doing much better than many of the other countries which s…

Economically, yes, possibly. I'm rather concerned about the societal growth. Poland is, if anything, growing more intolerant, partisan, narrow-minded, and at times just outright stupid.

For example, the current, still fairly popular government, is alienating literally all allies around, for no apparent reason. Pissing off Americans over a forced sale of a US-owned TV channel, pissing off the EU for a host of petty and ultimately futile little sorties for years now, pissing off Czechs over an, ultimately, minor border conflict to do with a power plant, perpetual beef with Russia. Out of all our neighbours, we're not in conflict only with the Baltic Sea right now, but it's still early in the day.

This has all in fact intensified over the last few months, which see hybrid aggression from Belarus and a Russian army ready to strike at Ukraine, Poland's immediate neighbour. So not a good time to alienate allies and friends.

And worst of all, this seems to be popular. Screw these meddling foreigners. Education is being ripped to shreds for ideological battles. School history is being replaced with "History and Present", where the "Present" is literally recounting how amazing the current government is. Public funds are being raided for political points.

Meanwhile, Finland seems calm and collected. For its 2018 100th anniversary of independence, they built a huge library, and IIRC sent every child a book. Poland founded an enormous museum to its own awesomeness, somewhere in the middle of nowhere (so it can be grand enough), and hasn't finished it still in December 2021.

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