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Titanpointe: The NSA’s spy hub in New York, hidden in plain sight (2016)

theintercept.com

51–60 of 80 posts

Re: Titanpointe: The NSA’s spy hub in New York, hidden in plain sight (2016)

#52
I dislike this article whenever it comes up in that it conflates the NSA activity at the site (TITANPOINTE) with the building in a very confusing way. The building is not an NSA building, it is an AT&T building. The NSA is a tenant, along with many other organizations who use the building for meet-me and internet exchange purposes. It's absolutely true that the NSA has a concerning relationship with AT&T that has evidently allowed them to conduct widespread surveillance at telephone switches, but this article seems to be making a case that the building itself is an edifice of the NSA... which is no more true than an Amazon data center.

It is interesting that the building is nuclear-hardened, but it was started in 1969, which was about five years after it became standing policy for AT&T to nuclear-harden all major long-lines facilities. It's not at all unique to this building and is unrelated to the NSA, nuclear-hardened AT&T exchanges can be found from major cities to small towns across the United States (Farmington, New Mexico, for example), and a large portion of surviving microwave relay sites are hardened. The general standard was roughly for a 100KT detonation at five miles, but some facilities were built for more. The motivation was survivable telecommunications after a nuclear attack, which was primarily a requirement of the US Government which relied on AT&T to build out AUTOVON as a survivable C2 and continuity of government system (and AT&T was generously paid for this work). Alongside AUTOVON, AT&T designed and operated systems like ECHO FOX which provided telephone connections to Air Force One and other national emergency command post aircraft. The end-user client here was mainly the POTUS and Strategic Air Command (later Army and Navy components of the triad), not intelligence.

The choice of architect was a fairly simple one, he was, at the time, a notable architect who was friendly with the federal government (who was in part the client due to AUTOVON and other C2 programs, not intelligence) and had prior experience working on hardened facilities like embassies.

It feels like the author chose this rather confusing way of presenting the issue, conflating the physical building with NSA activity that occurs in it, mostly just to weave in the architecture criticism. The building itself is very interesting, but really does nothing to advance the NSA story and rather seems to suggest that the scale of NSA activity is far larger (the whole building!) than it really is (generally thought to be a single suite on one floor, and far from the only suite occupied by staff of AT&T tenants). What the NSA has seems to basically be an office space, cage, and cross-connect agreement, which tons of other tenants also have... the NSA is just unusual in that the cross-connects go to interfaces configured for lawful intercept (which is more a telecom term of art and not a judgment of the legality).

Re: Titanpointe: The NSA’s spy hub in New York, hidden in plain sight (2016)

#53
This discussion is bizzare. It’s not a NSA building it’s a telecom building. So the NSA goes there to tap into telecom.

That doesn’t make it an NSA building though it’s still primarily a telecom hub. It’s not the only giant windowless building of its kind in Manhattan either. There’s the Verizon one next to the Brooklyn Bridge on Pearl (which added some windows decades after being built) among others not to mention the Western Union building in Tribeca and so on.

Re: Titanpointe: The NSA’s spy hub in New York, hidden in plain sight (2016)

#54
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could have put some fake windows to make it look normal. They do this with data center buildings in my city.

A jail I was held in has tinted glass windows all the way around it to make it look like a modern office building, but behind the glass... 99% wall.

That's probably more to help limit the NIMBYism. Otherwise, why bother with the expense?

Re: Titanpointe: The NSA’s spy hub in New York, hidden in plain sight (2016)

#55

I dislike this article whenever it comes up in that it conflates the NSA activity at the site (TITANPOINTE) with the building in a very confusing way. The building is not an NSA building, it is an AT&T building. The NSA is a tenant, along with many other organizations who use the building for meet-me and internet exchange purposes. It's absolutely true that the NSA has a concerning relationship with AT&T that has evi…

Great reply, reads like something out of a Popular Science magazine

Re: Titanpointe: The NSA’s spy hub in New York, hidden in plain sight (2016)

#56

I dislike this article whenever it comes up in that it conflates the NSA activity at the site (TITANPOINTE) with the building in a very confusing way. The building is not an NSA building, it is an AT&T building. The NSA is a tenant, along with many other organizations who use the building for meet-me and internet exchange purposes. It's absolutely true that the NSA has a concerning relationship with AT&T that has evi…

Started reading this and thought "I bet this is the computer.rip person" and then saw your username. I really enjoy your articles, thank you.

Re: Titanpointe: The NSA’s spy hub in New York, hidden in plain sight (2016)

#57
post #7
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A fifty story windowless concrete building that's genuinely attractive. Not at all what I expected to discover on the Wikipedia page.

How is it attractive? It looks extremely oppressive. I remember coming by that building while walking through Manhattan by chance and thinking this must be some government surveillance center or something.

Although I know that some people prefer brutalist architecture, there's definitely a case to be made about the design of a building meant to house communications in a free nation that prides itself with the first amendment, you would think they would make it transparent or all-glass and even go out of their way to make the corners of the building see through. Maybe something like Mies Van der Rohe's Westmount Square in Montreal could have been explored with an added deep underground level to satisfy the nuclear-hardening requirements.

Sometimes buildings and architecture are testaments to the culture of the time that it was built, some might say it was the beginning of the cold war and the rise of secrecy etc.

Re: Titanpointe: The NSA’s spy hub in New York, hidden in plain sight (2016)

#58

Off topic but... If I ran an NSA secret spy hub, it wouldn't be called Titanpointe. It would be called something less ridiculous and more mundane like "John's Computer Services". I'd be embarrassed when a name like that kept appearing on documents or for brought up in meetings.

So what if the name leaks and some hapless computer-unsavvy person happens to call John's Computer Services to help him get rid of the 32 rows of IE toolbars on his Pentium IV-based PC running Windows Vista? At least Titanpointe sounds like a government codename and something vaguely menacing that you shouldn't really mess with.

how about an actual computer services shop as a front?

Re: Titanpointe: The NSA’s spy hub in New York, hidden in plain sight (2016)

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NSA is actually it's own layer in the OSI model. They won't teach you about this in school, though, but there are even more than 7 layers.... /s

is the last layer turtles?

Application

Presentation

Session

Transport

Network

Data Link

Physical

NSA

Furry Engineers

Re: Titanpointe: The NSA’s spy hub in New York, hidden in plain sight (2016)

#60

I dislike this article whenever it comes up in that it conflates the NSA activity at the site (TITANPOINTE) with the building in a very confusing way. The building is not an NSA building, it is an AT&T building. The NSA is a tenant, along with many other organizations who use the building for meet-me and internet exchange purposes. It's absolutely true that the NSA has a concerning relationship with AT&T that has evi…

Sorry not to add value, but this kind of comment is what I come to HN for
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