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Hidden Networks in TP-Link Routers

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Re: Hidden Networks in TP-Link Routers

#51

Post by gruez »

3np wrote: post #39

A bit of a tangent, but I recently discovered GL.iNet[0] and ordered a couple of routers and hotspots. HK vendor for network devices running forked OpenWRT with a bunch of extras and customization. I haven't had the time to dive deep enough into all of the code yet, but so far I'm very optimistic. Not perfect; some of the more interesting functionality (like site-to-site VPN) is tied to a proprietary closed SaaS with…

>[0]: https://www.gl-inet.com/

I just checked out their site and their offerings look underwhelming. Their top of the range home router costs $90 and supports 802.11ax... but only at 1200Mb/s. You could buy a mid-range 802.11ac router with similar speeds, made by ASUS years ago, on sale. I guess you could argue "Openwrt" is worth the premium, but ASUS routers have asus-merlin for open firmware.

Re: Hidden Networks in TP-Link Routers

#52

Post by 3np »

encryptluks2 wrote: post #18

Many TP-Link products are absolutely terrible. Their Mesh products at Costco, you have to use an app on your phone to manage them and they are tied to an online account so presumably they are shipping your network info back to China. They won't even let you change your login email address once you've registered.

That last point was so infuriating. Was home visiting family a while back and helped them set up their new TP-Link network. Reluctantly installed the management app on a device of mine, and made my family member admin with full permissions (or so I thought).

Only after I left town did we realize I'd have to hand them my account to actually give them the admin rights.

Re: Hidden Networks in TP-Link Routers

#53

Post by comboy »

formerly_proven wrote: post #6

So after the Ubiquiti debacle I went out and looked for a similar combination (solid hardware + not-too-annoying software). After briefly considering Mikrotik (which has issues with ac (wifi 5) and no ax (wifi 6) support) I settled on Grandstream for now. They don't just make phones but a small set of fairly nicely featured wifi APs for ok prices. Hardware seems solid, Software not annoying. I've bought a few pieces…

Got rid of Ubiquiti and the breach was just a footprint. Personally I'm really happy with Mikrotik. I do not recommend it if networking is not your thing and you just want some plug and play. So far I love it, wifi performance is better to me than unifi but that has many dimensions (I care most about reliability and low latency), plus it allowed me to have 10Gbe at a reasonable price.

It's still closed source, but if you're a bit paranoid then OpenWRT does not solve your problems (re some other comment). Switch chips are computers on their own and you have no control over them. I would be really really surprised if they don't have tons of adventures in them. Reacting to magic packets or even something that may not be visible to L3 sniffer seems trivial to implement in ASIC. Firmware of network cards is also something outside your control.

Long story short, I would suggest starting to treat your local network as if it was public Internet. E2E, firewalls, honeypots (obscure ones) and backups. I mean, if you care, perfectly fine not to, life's short.

Re: Hidden Networks in TP-Link Routers

#54

Post by treesknees »

SavantIdiot wrote: post #40
treesknees wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The public hotspot systems are actually much "worse" in terms of the overheads the author wrote about. With a couple of unused SSIDs, they're just sending out a simple 802.11 beacon frame every so often and that's it. The energy cost and disruption to surrounding networks/channels must be minimal. With a hotspot, not only do you have regular network traffic flowing and causing more potential interference, your router…

I don't follow your reasoning at all. It sounds like you are claiming public 802.11 hotspots are more noisy that everyone running their own routers. You do realize it is the same spectrum, right? It is literally the same impact, except with a larger BSSID you can route traffic more effectively. Sharing more stations across phy APS in the same BSSID would be less overall traffic because it can be evenly distributed. M…

No, that is not what I am claiming. If you read the article, the author claims that the 2 unused networks are a source of interference. I'm simply claiming that a busy or utilized hotspot will be a much larger source of potential interference than an unused network doing nothing but broadcasting a few beacon frames every few ms.

Your power calculation is only based on the power of the broadcasting signal, not evaluating the electrical load on the router to do so or to process received signals and process traffic (performing NAT, encapsulation, etc.) The article I linked you to clearly states this

>According to Speedify’s testing, the router draws 0.14 amps when idle and 0.22 amps when loaded. By the company’s calculations, this comes out to roughly $23 per year at mid-Atlantic power rates

Re: Hidden Networks in TP-Link Routers

#55

Post by cbdumas »

While we're talking routers I'll plug Mikrotik. Some basic knowledge of the Linux networking stack is required so they're not great for a general user, but for ~$50 I got a device that handles my setup with ease (Ipv4 over PPPoE and IPv6 over 6rd) and I'm seeing throughput significantly higher than my previous router which was a Zotac mini computer running pfsense. If you are more toward the power user / networking nerd end of the spectrum I'd recommend Mikrotik.

Re: Hidden Networks in TP-Link Routers

#56

Post by tablespoon »

msla wrote: post #34
azinman2 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author touched on right of repair. I’d love to see a law requiring all devices to either be supported, or if being sunset, being required by law to provide tools/source/schematics to take over the device and extend its utility beyond the manufacturer’s willingness. Particularly a last firmware that disables anything requiring phoning home to continue to function. We saw that with OnHub recently, when after only 6…

"Right of repair" being focused on hardware is a neat little trick to enforce the illusion that changing software is beyond your rights as a consumer. Yes, you can fix the antenna when it breaks, and focus on how hard the fight was to get the right to fix the hardware you own... which you don't own as long as the company uses software to control what the hardware can and cannot do. But you sure physically own those m…

> "Right of repair" being focused on hardware is a neat little trick to enforce the illusion that changing software is beyond your rights as a consumer.

Is it a trick, or just limited imagination?

My impression is that "right of repair" came from mechanically-minded people seeking to maintain their traditional ability to repair physical devices in the face of corporate hostility (e.g. farmers vs. John Deere).

> Yes, you can fix the antenna when it breaks, and focus on how hard the fight was to get the right to fix the hardware you own... which you don't own as long as the company uses software to control what the hardware can and cannot do. But you sure physically own those mostly-useless atoms real good!

This seems more of software-centric Free Software attitude, which is not a place someone with mechanical skills but not very strong software skills is likely to arrive at themselves.

Re: Hidden Networks in TP-Link Routers

#57

Post by newhotelowner »

formerly_proven wrote: post #6

So after the Ubiquiti debacle I went out and looked for a similar combination (solid hardware + not-too-annoying software). After briefly considering Mikrotik (which has issues with ac (wifi 5) and no ax (wifi 6) support) I settled on Grandstream for now. They don't just make phones but a small set of fairly nicely featured wifi APs for ok prices. Hardware seems solid, Software not annoying. I've bought a few pieces…

Ubiquiti was nice. But updates were horrible.

If there is a power outage, or cloud key gets restarted without shutting down, database gets corrupted. None of the other hardware - microtik, ruckus, Aruba instant or OpenWrt - has that issue. Ubiquiti added a battery to new cloud key to fix the issue.

I moved my hotel's wifi to Ruckus & another to Aruba instant on. It's been more than 12 months, and everything is working without any issue.

Re: Hidden Networks in TP-Link Routers

#58

Post by newhotelowner »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #31
formerly_proven wrote: post #6

So after the Ubiquiti debacle I went out and looked for a similar combination (solid hardware + not-too-annoying software). After briefly considering Mikrotik (which has issues with ac (wifi 5) and no ax (wifi 6) support) I settled on Grandstream for now. They don't just make phones but a small set of fairly nicely featured wifi APs for ok prices. Hardware seems solid, Software not annoying. I've bought a few pieces…

I have good experiences with Aruba instant on stuff for home networking.

Aruba instant on is super simple, and very easy to setup.

Re: Hidden Networks in TP-Link Routers

#59

Post by icelancer »

sgarman wrote: post #22
bpye wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was more to the debacle, for example, putting ads for their other products in the controller UI.

Or the new version of their controller software missing huge chunks of functionality causing you to keep switching from new UI to old UI depending on what you needed to get done.

I think most of the complaints about UI are overblown (as commenters in this thread have pointed out) but this one is absolutely brutal. Sitemap works in one UI but not the other; some features work in new but not old... ridiculous.

Re: Hidden Networks in TP-Link Routers

#60

Post by submeta »

subhro wrote: post #50
submeta wrote: post #48

I aggree that the situation the author describes is unacceptable. But I am wondering why the author does not value his personal time. I can‘t help but think of opportunity costs. He spends a lot of time writing this article, reverse engineering backups and whatnot instead of shelling a hundred dollars to get a new device? I see this pattern so often in the tech world.

> But I am wondering why the author does not value his personal time. Maybe, because it is fun reverse engineering stuff?

I agree. I like tinkering myself. But then why mention avoiding spending a hundred dollars for a new device, but spending a couple of hours as if those hours are worth less than said amount of money.
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