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A few words about that ten-million-dollar serial comma (2017)

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Re: A few words about that ten-million-dollar serial comma (2017)

#11

personally, i generally find the absence of an oxford comma slightly jarring even without any ambiguity issue- i feel it matches the way i read and speak (midwest en-us) conversely, i only use semicolons in javascript when required..

Same. Seeing text without them bothers me unreasonably. I know some writing guides advise not using them, but I reject that reality and substitute my own.

Re: A few words about that ten-million-dollar serial comma (2017)

#12

> “The next day, I enjoyed pan-roasted oysters with a tomato sauce over rice, broccoli salad and bread pudding with chocolate sauce.” A comma after “broccoli salad” would have cleared the table before dessert. I think if you write a sentence that's highly dependent on the reader paying careful attention to where an easy-to-miss comma is, you assume all readers know what Oxford commas are, and the sentence generates a…

This is likely just me, but I find sentences where the independent clause is bookended by an introductory and dependent clause to be inelegant. I never write them.

Re: A few words about that ten-million-dollar serial comma (2017)

#13

> “The next day, I enjoyed pan-roasted oysters with a tomato sauce over rice, broccoli salad and bread pudding with chocolate sauce.” A comma after “broccoli salad” would have cleared the table before dessert. I think if you write a sentence that's highly dependent on the reader paying careful attention to where an easy-to-miss comma is, you assume all readers know what Oxford commas are, and the sentence generates a…

[deleted]

Re: A few words about that ten-million-dollar serial comma (2017)

#14

> “The next day, I enjoyed pan-roasted oysters with a tomato sauce over rice, broccoli salad and bread pudding with chocolate sauce.” A comma after “broccoli salad” would have cleared the table before dessert. I think if you write a sentence that's highly dependent on the reader paying careful attention to where an easy-to-miss comma is, you assume all readers know what Oxford commas are, and the sentence generates a…

I'm a fan of hyphens:

"...oysters with a tomato sauce over rice, broccoli salad - and bread pudding ..."

Re: A few words about that ten-million-dollar serial comma (2017)

#15

Why, commas not withstanding, should Maine prevent people in the food supply chain business from getting overtime. I am pinko-Euro-liberal and even I think that's government meddling. Is there a historic reason for this if just labour-bashing ?

"During the New Deal Era, President Roosevelt struck a bargain with Southern Democrats: they would support worker rights legislation so long as their farmworkers (and other predominantly African-American workers, such as domestic workers) were exempt. Thus, Congress excluded farmworkers from the National Labor Relations Act of 1935 (NLRA), the main federal law that protects workers who join and organize labor unions, and from the federal minimum wage and overtime protections in the Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938"

https://thenaturalfarmer.org/article/brief-history-farmworke...

Re: A few words about that ten-million-dollar serial comma (2017)

#16

Why, commas not withstanding, should Maine prevent people in the food supply chain business from getting overtime. I am pinko-Euro-liberal and even I think that's government meddling. Is there a historic reason for this if just labour-bashing ?

The government isn't preventing them from negotiating a better contract with their employers, it's just refusing to enshrine their entitlement to overtime into state law. From that point of view, this carve-out reduces government interference in labour relations.

Re: A few words about that ten-million-dollar serial comma (2017)

#17
post #3

Ahh, one of my pet peeves! I like and use the Oxford comma in my emails but have observed am in the extreme minority on this one. Here’s an English SE question with some interesting answers: https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/412/should-i-put... . Here’s Another answer with great visual illustration of the strippers, JFK, and Stalin example: https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/172671/oxford-co... . M…

> My other sensibilities include not putting two spaces at sentence end (among other things this shows that you’re most probably 40+) and writing PowerPoint slide titles in sentence case rather than title case.

Yep, guilty on both counts, and over 40. I feel no particular inclination to change, either, since neither seems to be anything more than personal preference. Someone will always disagree, so I just stick to the way I've always done it.

Re: A few words about that ten-million-dollar serial comma (2017)

#18

Why, commas not withstanding, should Maine prevent people in the food supply chain business from getting overtime. I am pinko-Euro-liberal and even I think that's government meddling. Is there a historic reason for this if just labour-bashing ?

The governments here in the US fill two roles. Oppressing workers and protecting them. You never know what it is going to be from one moment to the next and we all await verdicts to cases like this, not knowing WTF is going to happen.

Unions are protected with various laws...then court cases pops up where there is some debate about if a Union can legally strike or even negotiate.

In my mind it is very clear. Do the workers have leverage? If so, then "the company??" has to negotiate...just like they would with any business partner.

In the end the courts are used as a bulwark against worker rights. Any victories for workers just give substance to the idea of governments intervening in business negotiations when board rooms want to socialize expenses.

Re: A few words about that ten-million-dollar serial comma (2017)

#19

> “The next day, I enjoyed pan-roasted oysters with a tomato sauce over rice, broccoli salad and bread pudding with chocolate sauce.” A comma after “broccoli salad” would have cleared the table before dessert. I think if you write a sentence that's highly dependent on the reader paying careful attention to where an easy-to-miss comma is, you assume all readers know what Oxford commas are, and the sentence generates a…

This is likely just me, but I find sentences where the independent clause is bookended by an introductory and dependent clause to be inelegant. I never write them.

It's easily noticed when omitted improperly and more easily overlooked when done correctly.

Re: A few words about that ten-million-dollar serial comma (2017)

#20
post #8

Many people use the Oxford comma in every case because they don’t trust their own judgement about ambiguity. That’s always struck me as pretty lazy, despite proponents insisting it’s some sort of principled stance.

A writer should strive for clarity over style whenever possible.
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