Failed for the past 12 years as an tech entrepreneur • Hacker News Board

Re: Failed for the past 12 years as an tech entrepreneur

#71

Post by nanodano » Mon, Dec 20, 2021, 5:41 PM UTC

A couple thoughts after reading this. They aren't meant to be criticisms, just a reflection on my own experiences as well because I have had plenty of failures myself.

For one, failing is probable. Most small businesses fail. The chances that you get it right on your very first try is low. Sometimes it takes many failed business ventures before you learn all the lessons. A lot of the lessons can be learned from reading books though. The common and cliche things like "identify your target audience" and "researching competitors" and "see if there is an interest in the product" are mentioned in every book but still skipped by so many.

There is a lot of talk about the things being built and the technology, but almost no discussion about the marketing side which is arguably more important. I wonder how much effort was put into that aspect.

It sounds like there was not a lot of product/market research before building the thing. I'm guilty of this too, building a product nobody wanted because I didn't do homework first to see if anyone cared.

Some of the ideas sound like they had no passion behind them. For example, the affiliate site for selling dresses. Was that something that was inspiring, or simply an easy-way-to-make-money thing? I think that can have a huge effect in quitting or sticking with it.

And it also sounds like there was a lot of quitting too early because things weren't growing fast enough. The marketing aspect may have played a factor here, but from my experience...solo startups DO NOT grow fast. Having that expectation in the first place might have been the reason for such disappointment. Running a business is a long-term thing that could even span beyond your lifetime.

Re: Failed for the past 12 years as an tech entrepreneur

#72

Post by karussell » Mon, Dec 20, 2021, 5:42 PM UTC

ilamont wrote: post #25

Glad you kept at it and finally created something with traction. Here's what I learned via trial and error. A long time ago, when investors and accelerators and MBA programs began to dominate the startup scene, founders got distracted. I saw (and sometimes created) half-baked apps and websites, useless market research, chasing trends, chasing vanity metrics, investor pitching contests, startup theatre, and "build it…

> Build something people want and will pay for.

> Not just say they want.

> Not just say they'll pay for.

Thanks. From my point of view these are the most important points.

Also listen to your customers and pick the things that meet your goals of the product but avoid including features that are very likely not scalable/adaptable/useful for other customers.

It does also not hurt if you are convinced about your product and stick to it for an even longer period (years in my case). But sometimes it is necessary to jump off much earlier (months in my case) e.g. when the market is not big enough or competition is too crazy or similar.

Re: Failed for the past 12 years as an tech entrepreneur

#73

Post by progre » Mon, Dec 20, 2021, 5:44 PM UTC

Msw242 wrote: post #54

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an underrated path, IMO. Consulting is an excellent way to hone the non-coding skills necessary for bootstrapping a company: Scoping projects, timeline estimation, choosing tradeoffs, finishing things, selling things, presenting products to others. It's also helpful to be able to get out and talk to other businesses and people on a regular basis. Bootstrapping can be extremely lonely in a way that is hard to…

VCs actively dissuade founders from doing professional services.

I guess it's because VCs are are after the exponential growth that is possible with a hit B2C product but not realisticly possible with B2B. B2B can generate pretty solid incomes though. My previous employer had 15-20 clients, around 2M EUR yearly revenue, a solid 20% margin, with 30 employees. Fintech.

Re: Failed for the past 12 years as an tech entrepreneur

#74

Post by nprateem » Mon, Dec 20, 2021, 5:47 PM UTC

Well done for persevering, but it sounds like you missed the obvious. If you want to start a business, study business (and marketing).

Since you spent time marketing there are 2 conclusions: nobody cared, or you didn't manage to find people who would have. Learning marketing should have taught you both those things.

The classic marketing line is: find a gap in the market or an undeserved niche, understand their needs better than the competition so you can solve their needs better. Then tell them and they should be delighted, becoming your customer. Then work hard to maintain their custom.

Coders think they just need to spaff out products, but you need to build something people actually want if you want to start a business.

It's not too late. Seriously, take some marketing courses at a university.

Re: Failed for the past 12 years as an tech entrepreneur

#75

Post by start123 » Mon, Dec 20, 2021, 5:58 PM UTC

nprateem wrote: post #74

Well done for persevering, but it sounds like you missed the obvious. If you want to start a business, study business (and marketing). Since you spent time marketing there are 2 conclusions: nobody cared, or you didn't manage to find people who would have. Learning marketing should have taught you both those things. The classic marketing line is: find a gap in the market or an undeserved niche, understand their needs…

I agree, I focused too much on technology side and completely sidelined marketing and sales. It took some time but I have learnt my lesson now. I spend a week marketing/sales and a week on building features. I wish I could have known this much before.

Re: Failed for the past 12 years as an tech entrepreneur

#76

Post by start123 » Mon, Dec 20, 2021, 6:00 PM UTC

orasis wrote: post #59

I’m sincerely not trying to be mean, but it’s possible you were previously simply bad at entrepreneurship. There is this dominant narrative that entrepreneurship is primarily about raw willpower and persistence despite the odds. As a 20+ year entrepreneur I do not believe this to be the case. I believe the primary skill is observation. Yes, we need to try different ideas, but what really makes a product work is liste…

I guess so. Besides tech, I did not have any other skills to market my product. Since then, I have learnt a bit of Sales, cold out reach, marketing channels, distribution and a lot more. In my 20s my primary focus was to look and do something cool than think about selling the product.

Re: Failed for the past 12 years as an tech entrepreneur

#77

Post by hluska » Mon, Dec 20, 2021, 6:02 PM UTC

start123 wrote: post #75

nprateem wrote: post #74

Well done for persevering, but it sounds like you missed the obvious. If you want to start a business, study business (and marketing). Since you spent time marketing there are 2 conclusions: nobody cared, or you didn't manage to find people who would have. Learning marketing should have taught you both those things. The classic marketing line is: find a gap in the market or an undeserved niche, understand their needs…

I agree, I focused too much on technology side and completely sidelined marketing and sales. It took some time but I have learnt my lesson now. I spend a week marketing/sales and a week on building features. I wish I could have known this much before.

Honestly friend?? You know now and you’ve already shared the benefit of your hard experiences. Writing this openly is a wicked gift and I bet this thread had already helped a bunch of entrepreneurs learn.

It sucks for you that it took you so long to learn, but it gives your words a real authority. I’d wish you luck but it sounds like you’ve already got this.

Good run rates. :)

Re: Failed for the past 12 years as an tech entrepreneur

#78

Post by dennis_jeeves » Mon, Dec 20, 2021, 6:08 PM UTC

GDC7 wrote: post #7

Honestly this seems like hell. I'd rather work remotely for a US company and move my ass somwhere like Brazil or Nigeria or Philippines or Thailand. You'd maybe feel the boredom and the lack of power in the decision making and the shame of having to report and reply "yessir" . But once you clock out you can then be the boss of the hood and recoup all frustration accumulated during worktime, throw the weight of the mi…

No post body was provided.

Re: Failed for the past 12 years as an tech entrepreneur

#79

Post by start123 » Mon, Dec 20, 2021, 6:08 PM UTC

montblanc wrote: post #66

I dont wanna sound negative but for some people giving up makes sense. Entrepreneurship could be extremely isolating and depressig, especially when its not working out, and not everyone wants a decade of failure after failure and missing out on other financial and social opportunities.

Yes, 3 years is pretty much a good way to measure if you have made it or not. Anything beyond that is pretty much a waste of time. Also, surrounding yourself with people of similar interests will keep you going. Currently, I have some great indie hacker friends on Twitter who keep me motivated.

Re: Failed for the past 12 years as an tech entrepreneur

#80

Post by nprateem » Mon, Dec 20, 2021, 6:09 PM UTC

start123 wrote: post #75

nprateem wrote: post #74

Well done for persevering, but it sounds like you missed the obvious. If you want to start a business, study business (and marketing). Since you spent time marketing there are 2 conclusions: nobody cared, or you didn't manage to find people who would have. Learning marketing should have taught you both those things. The classic marketing line is: find a gap in the market or an undeserved niche, understand their needs…

I agree, I focused too much on technology side and completely sidelined marketing and sales. It took some time but I have learnt my lesson now. I spend a week marketing/sales and a week on building features. I wish I could have known this much before.

I don't mean spending time on marketing as in advertising, I mean market research, segmentation, positioning... The things you should do before you write any production code if possible.

I hear Blue Ocean Strategy is a good book to help find a vacant position.