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Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

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Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#211

Post by rvz »

knorker wrote: post #135
rvz wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla still has remote access to the cars its has sold and can unlock them if the authorities request them to do so. If that is not a backdoor I don't know what is. Evidently, the car isn't yours, even though you have paid for it. Tesla still owns it.

I didn't say there was no backdoor. Every locksmith in the world has the ability to bypass your lock (exaggeration). That doesn't make them the owner.

> I didn't say there was no backdoor.

You didn't need to and given that was already avoided here; it now has been admitted. Thus, it is by definition a 'backdoor' then especially a directly 'remote' one. It doesn't matter who it is, we just know that Tesla and many others have this ability directly; no locksmith needed or whatever.

So the future is connected cars where not even you can fully control your own car and it is still 'owned' and can be externally controlled in the hands of the manufacturer, just like our phones. Since they are already giving out OTA updates to it.

Dreadful.

Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#212

Post by spike021 »

flutas wrote: post #189
chrisseaton wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> someone with the key can now remote summon the car Cars with remote summons features today basically just crawl forward a few metres to help you get out of a parking spot. They aren't self-driving across town to a repossession lot, if that's what you're thinking.

> Cars with remote summons features today basically just crawl forward a few metres to help you get out of a parking spot. Smart summon on a M3 (what the article is talking about) can back out and navigate parking lots... although horribly and slowly. But it's not just a straight line.

One time someone did this in a Costco parking lot from 2 rows away from me and my parked car. It pulled out of its spot 3 spaces away from my car, started doing a u-turn that would've had it hit my car in order to drive through the row of parking spots. I was standing in front of my car wondering where the eff the driver was (obviously it was smart summon but in the heat of the moment...). Lots of families go to Costco, I could've easily had a small child with me next to my car and we would've been about 8 or so feet from being hit by a car that apparently had no idea I was there.

Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#213

Post by mikeryan »

Ajedi32 wrote: post #204
Jaruzel wrote: post #12

The main issue here I guess, is Tesla assisting the bailiffs. Bailiffs (here in the UK) have certain legal rights to enter and repossess your house and/or remove property you haven't fully paid for. They are granted this right via a case-by-case court order. If Telsa are also granted the rights within the court order to assist the bailiffs, then presumably it would be a fully legal action. At the end of the day, you…

The "main issue" is that Tesla is even able to assist the bailiffs in this manner. If a remote party can, by design, lock you out of your car and take control of it without your consent, do you even really own the vehicle in the first place? Others have argued "well, you don't own the car, the bank does", but unless Tesla is somehow unable to do this with cars not owned by a lienholder, that's kinda beside the point…

In the US a financed car is “owned” by the bank until fully paid off - which most of the time is a subsidiary of the manufacturer.

A lot of Teslas are also just leased.

Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#214

Post by defaultprimate »

015a wrote: post #198
aasasd wrote: post #190

A bunch of years ago, when Tesla and Google's car were only just starting and it was fashionable to discuss the implications of self-driving cars, one dude wrote (approximately): > People are discussing: if the car has to choose between running over a pedestrian and sacrificing the driver's life, what should it choose? Well it's obvious: the driver pays for the car, so they wouldn't buy a car that kills them in case…

I'm pretty strongly of the position that high levels of self-driving are impossible for artificial intelligences to attain, because they're built by corporations. Driving is VERY risky, and involves an irreducible assumption of both risk and liability on behalf of the driver. Humans are natural risk-takers. Corporations are not; and any artificial intelligence a corporation produces is always, at some level of meanin…

While I agree with you 100%. High level self driving is impossible on a technical level too imo, there's too many aspects of human perception, processing, and intuition that aren't possible to emulate or account for in, what machine learning really boils down to, a statistical model. There will always be novel situations that you can't simply math your way out of that a human could navigate effortlessly.

Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#215

Post by borkyborkbork »

015a wrote: post #198
aasasd wrote: post #190

A bunch of years ago, when Tesla and Google's car were only just starting and it was fashionable to discuss the implications of self-driving cars, one dude wrote (approximately): > People are discussing: if the car has to choose between running over a pedestrian and sacrificing the driver's life, what should it choose? Well it's obvious: the driver pays for the car, so they wouldn't buy a car that kills them in case…

I'm pretty strongly of the position that high levels of self-driving are impossible for artificial intelligences to attain, because they're built by corporations. Driving is VERY risky, and involves an irreducible assumption of both risk and liability on behalf of the driver. Humans are natural risk-takers. Corporations are not; and any artificial intelligence a corporation produces is always, at some level of meanin…

I wouldn't describe Tesla as a corporation that is risk averse.

Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#216

Post by malfist »

beervirus wrote: post #193
gonzoflip wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmmm, I feel like this reply is making light of other's deaths. I was more talking about the ability to attend a protest. I believe in personal freedom, as well as personal responsibility.

Quoted post unavailable.

Are you seriously suggesting that protesting is an execution worthy offense?

Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#217

Post by dangus »

"Tesla hired him"

Does this mean that Tesla is the owner of the loan?

I'm skeptical that Tesla will be helping random banks get their money back like this, but it sounds like this is direct financing through Tesla.

Also, keep in mind that this is just a tweet with a picture of a car on a trailer. This is absolutely not verified as true. Tesla nor the car's owner have verified or commented on this from what we can see in this article. Literally just some guy who says "a friend told me."

Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#218

Post by wolrah »

Datenstrom wrote: post #209
015a wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty strongly of the position that high levels of self-driving are impossible for artificial intelligences to attain, because they're built by corporations. Driving is VERY risky, and involves an irreducible assumption of both risk and liability on behalf of the driver. Humans are natural risk-takers. Corporations are not; and any artificial intelligence a corporation produces is always, at some level of meanin…

From Tesla's release of their full self-driving beta and its performance in a recent CGP Grey video where it successfully navigates the most dangerous road in America[1] I think a lot of people are going to have to eat their hats on this stance very soon. I consider myself bullish on this tech, and I have worked closely with autonomous robotics, but I didn't expect it this soon. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d…

> where it successfully navigates the most dangerous road in America

Twistiest, maybe. Most dangerous, not even close unless you or someone driving towards you do something dumb.

Historically Autopilot's weak spots have been crappy/ambiguous road markings, low speed corners on high speed roads, and large vehicles stopped on/across the road. This video hit none of those points. The lane markings are clear, the posted limit is low, and large vehicles aren't even supposed to be there.

Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#219

Post by prmoustache »

akvadrako wrote: post #110
prmoustache wrote: post #41

As a bicycle and old motorcycles user I am gobsmacked that so much people accept that the vehicule they are using is connected or regularly phone home to the manufacturer. I guess if you share all your life on facebook and instagram, why shouldn't you also give away all your errands to any third party. Is there at least a license agreement you are showned at and have to agree to upon delivery? Can you operate those v…

I'm not sure how your bicycle usage is relevant. Many new electric bikes also have GPS + SIM tracking.

Well all my bikes are "muscular bikes" for one thing, and I build most of them out of spare parts. And I haven't jumped on the electronic shifting band wagon either. I don't necessarily see all these technos as bad but I spend enough time in front of my computer and I want my bikes to stay part of the analog world.

Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#220

Post by leereeves »

Datenstrom wrote: post #209
015a wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty strongly of the position that high levels of self-driving are impossible for artificial intelligences to attain, because they're built by corporations. Driving is VERY risky, and involves an irreducible assumption of both risk and liability on behalf of the driver. Humans are natural risk-takers. Corporations are not; and any artificial intelligence a corporation produces is always, at some level of meanin…

From Tesla's release of their full self-driving beta and its performance in a recent CGP Grey video where it successfully navigates the most dangerous road in America[1] I think a lot of people are going to have to eat their hats on this stance very soon. I consider myself bullish on this tech, and I have worked closely with autonomous robotics, but I didn't expect it this soon. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d…

That actually didn't look like much of a challenge. All the Tesla had to do was drive slowly and stay in its lane on curves.

There were no obstacles that Teslas have had trouble with in the past, like stopped firetrucks, ending lanes, or people changing tires.

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